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Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

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Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#31

This would help white guys, too. It's not like we're immune to toxicity. IME it's usually one bad manager and/or one genius on the team that makes things so bad for everyone else. Maybe it's just been blind luck that I haven't worked on a whole team of sexist people. Here's what I would ask to mitigate these problems (keeping in mind I haven't necessarily asked these myself): In what ways does your manager make your…

> This would help white guys, too

I thought about answering this too, but then I thought that there are factors that don't affect us, and this is what the OP is specifically asking about.

I think the questions you suggest beg for people to lie, especially hiring managers; I'd ask something more subtle like "how competitive the team is"... "How do you deal with bugs that made it to production" which begs asshole managers to brag about team toxicity...

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a red flag if the team never did anything together, like their team events were solely an outing every 6 months.

Really? Plenty of people like to keep a separation between work and a social or family life. My employer has an outing once per year, but little else -- most staff either have a young family to go home to, or a social life outside work. [NB: European in Europe here.]

You never have team lunches? "a social life outside work" wouldn't stop you from having beer with the team or part of the team once every week or two. And I just said a red flag. If it looks like it's more "adults" on the team or more like a government job, maybe it's just fine. YMMV

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#33
Woman in high pressure tech here.

First, the most important person is your direct manager. Ask recruiters specifically "did I meet with the person I'd be reporting to? If not I would like to meet them." This is the most key person, and if they are not your ally, no matter what the rest of the company thinks, you are sunk.

Ask about other women at the company, or if the team has had women but they've left. If they think that question is stupid, that is one of the biggest red flags.

Of course, try to get a good vibe from everyone you talk to, and if they like you as a candidate, they are likely to be willing to spend extra social time after extending an offer, such as a lunch with the team or something like that.

In the end, I'm sad to report that because good people leave faster, that most likely if you have a great manager that respects you, it's likely if you stay more than a couple years that they might be replaced. You may or may not have a say in that, and they may not be supportive. Always be on the watch.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#35
Full disclosure: white dude, not a minority of any kind in my country.

Five years ago, I would have said that the percentage of women in an office isn't necessarily a good indicator of anything. Nowadays, this would be my first advice: ask how many women work there.

With maybe one exception, all the places I've worked in that had very few women were terrible places to work in. Most of them were unpleasant to work in even for men who think "bro" is not a word to be uttered after you turn 19.

Teams that have a strong bias against women act on it almost universally: they drive candidates away with shitty and/or unenthusiastic interviews and they make life hard for those candidates who do get through. They don't end up with all-male teams just because reputation preceeds them and no woman wants to work there -- they end up with all-male teams because prejudice and insecurity tend to tip the balance of their hiring decisions, too.

It's not a universal predictor, but I definitely consider it a red flag. Frankly, it's one that I look at, too. I'm not the SJW type, but when I got into this whole programming thing, hacker communities used to be inclusive and diverse, and I kind of like to keep that going.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#37

Disclaimer/warning: Straight white male responding. But it seems to me that an environment that is toxic for women is also an environment that I would find at least somewhat toxic - not because the crap is hitting me , but because there's a bunch of crap. So what I look for might be useful to you. I'm older - 55 - and some of what I have is just "hey, this feels like that place that I worked, and it was pretty crummy…

White girl here - I totally agree with this approach.

Look for the egos! Ask what happens if a developer disagrees with PM requirements, ask if they do code reviews/how they run code reviews, ask how they interact with QA (some times unfairly perceived as lesser teammates), etc

I find workplaces with a wide range of backgrounds, ages, married/unmarried, kids/no kids, university educated/self taught, are the most accepting/professional environments.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Plenty of people like to keep a separation between work and a social or family life. My employer has an outing once per year, but little else -- most staff either have a young family to go home to, or a social life outside work. [NB: European in Europe here.]

You never have team lunches? "a social life outside work" wouldn't stop you from having beer with the team or part of the team once every week or two. And I just said a red flag. If it looks like it's more "adults" on the team or more like a government job, maybe it's just fine. YMMV

Yeah, in fact I think in more adult or government teams someone non-binary might be better off.

You'll have easy union and HR support if needed and most people in such positions just want to get the job done and stay out of eachother's way, that attitude leads to friction minimization as a strategy instead of personal lives getting in the way of things. So if not caring is good enough for you, then it's possibly a good move.

As others have said, a workplace that involves more intermingling of social and work lives seems more likely to cause problems.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#39
You are absolutely starting out with the wrong mindset. Assuming the worst is absolutely a mindset that self-fulfills.

Based on your use of racist and sexist language, OP, I would probably NEVER hire you and I actively seek to keep people like you out of my organizations.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#40
I've had a couple interviews where there was an extended conversation about diversity in tech (both initiated by the interviewer). One of these was from a well-known SV tech firm that's had a lot of controversy around inclusion issues, and I could tell from the conversation that the other person just didn't get it. At another smaller tech company, the co-founders seemed deeply committed to creating an inclusive organization. So a lot of it is just having these conversations with people and making your own personal judgments (a lot of people say the right things, but the reality might be different).

(for the record I'm coming from the perspective of cisgender black male in case it matters)

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