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Isro’s new GSLV Mk III rocket places GSAT-19 communication satellite in orbit

m.timesofindia.com

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Re: Isro’s new GSLV Mk III rocket places GSAT-19 communication satellite in orbit

#21

Post by greglindahl »

happy-go-lucky wrote: post #15
alphadog_78 wrote: post #14

Congratulations ISRO.. Good step in right direction. If we compare this to current SpaceX Falcon 9 (not Falcon Heavy ) http://www.spacex.com/falcon9 Falcon 9 can deliver 8300 Kg to GTO and 22,800kg to LEO. GSLV MK III delivers 4000 Kg to GTO and 8000KG to LEO ( http://www.isro.gov.in/launchers/gslv-mk-iii ) Mr. Musk will be delivering hell lot of stuff to space with his reusable rockets. SO, he will be very cost comp…

> http://www.spacex.com/falcon9 According to the technical overview, Falcon 9 can also deliver 4020 kg to Mars :)

To put that into perspective, India's last Mars satellite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Orbiter_Mission weighed 1.3 metric tons, and was launched on PSLV-XL.

Re: Isro’s new GSLV Mk III rocket places GSAT-19 communication satellite in orbit

#22

Post by swatkat »

alphadog_78 wrote: post #14

Congratulations ISRO.. Good step in right direction. If we compare this to current SpaceX Falcon 9 (not Falcon Heavy ) http://www.spacex.com/falcon9 Falcon 9 can deliver 8300 Kg to GTO and 22,800kg to LEO. GSLV MK III delivers 4000 Kg to GTO and 8000KG to LEO ( http://www.isro.gov.in/launchers/gslv-mk-iii ) Mr. Musk will be delivering hell lot of stuff to space with his reusable rockets. SO, he will be very cost comp…

GSLV Mk III is a brand new launch vehicle. Usually, ISRO starts with conservative payload numbers for all their launch vehicles, and keep improving them iteratively. We have seen this happening with PSLV and GSLV Mk II as well. We can expect ISRO to bump up GSLV Mk III payload capacity in subsequent launches.

Re: Isro’s new GSLV Mk III rocket places GSAT-19 communication satellite in orbit

#23

Post by tankenmate »

flerchin wrote: post #17
alphadog_78 wrote: post #14

Congratulations ISRO.. Good step in right direction. If we compare this to current SpaceX Falcon 9 (not Falcon Heavy ) http://www.spacex.com/falcon9 Falcon 9 can deliver 8300 Kg to GTO and 22,800kg to LEO. GSLV MK III delivers 4000 Kg to GTO and 8000KG to LEO ( http://www.isro.gov.in/launchers/gslv-mk-iii ) Mr. Musk will be delivering hell lot of stuff to space with his reusable rockets. SO, he will be very cost comp…

The ISRO is pegging the price at Rs 400 Cr which is almost identical to a Falcon 9 at $62M at current exchange rates. Falcon 9 appears to win on price/payload, but ISRO is in the ballpark, impressive.

Except ISRO's margin can't be as good on the materials (although it's probably better on the staff costs). Th F9 FT has a take off mass of 549 metric tons and can put just under 23 metric tons into LEO, the GSLV-III has a mass of 640 metric tons and can put 10 metric tons into LEO. The combined propellent mass for the F9FT is approx 508 metric tons, the GSLV-III is 554 metric tons. So the non propellent mass for the F9FT is 41 metric tons, and the GSLV-III is 86 metric tons. What's more I'm fairly certain that the solid booster propellent costs more per ton, they are much much simpler to manufacture than liquid fuelled engines. F9 however is reusable and is almost completely assembled if not manufactured in house.

So I strongly suspect that SpaceX's margins are much better than ISRO's and that the development costs have been viewed as sunk cost by the Indian government.

Still it is a huge (100% plus) leap for ISRO; I'm sure as they launch more as well as more often their costs and mass fractions will improve.

Re: Isro’s new GSLV Mk III rocket places GSAT-19 communication satellite in orbit

#24

Post by alphadog_78 »

swatkat wrote: post #22
alphadog_78 wrote: post #14

Congratulations ISRO.. Good step in right direction. If we compare this to current SpaceX Falcon 9 (not Falcon Heavy ) http://www.spacex.com/falcon9 Falcon 9 can deliver 8300 Kg to GTO and 22,800kg to LEO. GSLV MK III delivers 4000 Kg to GTO and 8000KG to LEO ( http://www.isro.gov.in/launchers/gslv-mk-iii ) Mr. Musk will be delivering hell lot of stuff to space with his reusable rockets. SO, he will be very cost comp…

GSLV Mk III is a brand new launch vehicle. Usually, ISRO starts with conservative payload numbers for all their launch vehicles, and keep improving them iteratively. We have seen this happening with PSLV and GSLV Mk II as well. We can expect ISRO to bump up GSLV Mk III payload capacity in subsequent launches.

I'm not doubting whether ISRO will reach the weight range or not. It is how quickly they can reach in par with falcon 9.

As the payload doubles from 4000KG to 8000KG (to be in par with Falcon 9 ), You need to add more fuel and which increases the cost and total weightage of the rocket.

This additional weightage on the rocket will hamper the margins.

I'm not saying anything negative here and they have lot of work cut out for them because of re-usability of Falcon 9.

Overall, this is very good for us as competition drives the cost down and more and more services at lower cost.

Good positive start.

Re: Isro’s new GSLV Mk III rocket places GSAT-19 communication satellite in orbit

#25

Post by baq »

tankenmate wrote: post #23
flerchin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ISRO is pegging the price at Rs 400 Cr which is almost identical to a Falcon 9 at $62M at current exchange rates. Falcon 9 appears to win on price/payload, but ISRO is in the ballpark, impressive.

Except ISRO's margin can't be as good on the materials (although it's probably better on the staff costs). Th F9 FT has a take off mass of 549 metric tons and can put just under 23 metric tons into LEO, the GSLV-III has a mass of 640 metric tons and can put 10 metric tons into LEO. The combined propellent mass for the F9FT is approx 508 metric tons, the GSLV-III is 554 metric tons. So the non propellent mass for the…

good analysis, but i think you're missing the fact that the upper stage has a hydrolox engine, which destroys the falcon 9 stage 2 in terms of Isp (wikipedia gives 443 s). i wouldn't be surprised if it can carry more to geo-1500 than the f9.

edit: well the same wikipedia cites 4000kg to GTO so my guess is wrong.

Re: Isro’s new GSLV Mk III rocket places GSAT-19 communication satellite in orbit

#26

Post by alphadog_78 »

tankenmate wrote: post #23
flerchin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ISRO is pegging the price at Rs 400 Cr which is almost identical to a Falcon 9 at $62M at current exchange rates. Falcon 9 appears to win on price/payload, but ISRO is in the ballpark, impressive.

Except ISRO's margin can't be as good on the materials (although it's probably better on the staff costs). Th F9 FT has a take off mass of 549 metric tons and can put just under 23 metric tons into LEO, the GSLV-III has a mass of 640 metric tons and can put 10 metric tons into LEO. The combined propellent mass for the F9FT is approx 508 metric tons, the GSLV-III is 554 metric tons. So the non propellent mass for the…

I would be esctatic if ISRO just breaks even..It's not about margins. Just Imagine the fact NASA or ISRO does not need to depend on Govt and they generating their own money and continuing their research without interruptions.

No Tax payer money going to them and don't need to depend on Congress/Senate/President/ Prime minister mood to fund them.

Where as Musk, he is a private entrepreneur. He is upping the space game like anything.

Re: Isro’s new GSLV Mk III rocket places GSAT-19 communication satellite in orbit

#27

Post by jpeg_hero »

jgrahamc wrote: post #5

Some really nice photos of this on the ISRO site: http://www.isro.gov.in/gslv-mk-iii-d1-gsat-19-mission/gslv-m... Also the launch video is amazing. The moment the engines ignite the whole thing is moving most likely because those are solid rocket boosters and there's no throttle up time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae6LVG0j1Pg

Props to them for having old school, Apollo-style consoles in the mission control room. You loose something when you have youngsters with a bunch of Dell monitors like spaceX. I've seen twitch on the second monitor in spacex control room.

Re: Isro’s new GSLV Mk III rocket places GSAT-19 communication satellite in orbit

#28

Post by doublerebel »

pavanky wrote: post #20
alphadog_78 wrote: post #14

Congratulations ISRO.. Good step in right direction. If we compare this to current SpaceX Falcon 9 (not Falcon Heavy ) http://www.spacex.com/falcon9 Falcon 9 can deliver 8300 Kg to GTO and 22,800kg to LEO. GSLV MK III delivers 4000 Kg to GTO and 8000KG to LEO ( http://www.isro.gov.in/launchers/gslv-mk-iii ) Mr. Musk will be delivering hell lot of stuff to space with his reusable rockets. SO, he will be very cost comp…

Hmm this is weird. The description says "about 10 tons to Low Earth Orbit (LEO)" but the technical specification says "8000KG".

10 [US] tons = ~9000 kg

Re: Isro’s new GSLV Mk III rocket places GSAT-19 communication satellite in orbit

#29

Post by pavanky »

doublerebel wrote: post #28
pavanky wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm this is weird. The description says "about 10 tons to Low Earth Orbit (LEO)" but the technical specification says "8000KG".

10 [US] tons = ~9000 kg

I am pretty sure ton in India means metric ton, not [US] ton.

Re: Isro’s new GSLV Mk III rocket places GSAT-19 communication satellite in orbit

#30

Post by rst »

alphadog_78 wrote: post #24
swatkat wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GSLV Mk III is a brand new launch vehicle. Usually, ISRO starts with conservative payload numbers for all their launch vehicles, and keep improving them iteratively. We have seen this happening with PSLV and GSLV Mk II as well. We can expect ISRO to bump up GSLV Mk III payload capacity in subsequent launches.

I'm not doubting whether ISRO will reach the weight range or not. It is how quickly they can reach in par with falcon 9. As the payload doubles from 4000KG to 8000KG (to be in par with Falcon 9 ), You need to add more fuel and which increases the cost and total weightage of the rocket. This additional weightage on the rocket will hamper the margins. I'm not saying anything negative here and they have lot of work cut…

For comparison, expendable payload of Falcon 9 more than doubled between the first launch and the current version. (Reusable payload of the current version is less, but still exceeds the expendable payload of the original Falcon 9 1.0.) That Falcon 9 increase includes the significant engine upgrade to Merlin-1D, but ISRO is already planning to replace the core stage of its GPSV with a larger stage taking different fuels, which should boost capability significantly.
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