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Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

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Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#161
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not yet. The data is there to link it to you.

And by what legal means would a private university access that data to connect it?

What keeps them from doing it? Internet communication is not private. Everybody with access can record and sell it.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#162
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not yet. The data is there to link it to you.

And by what legal means would a private university access that data to connect it?

If you're not posting under your confirmed real name, in a facebook group under the control of the private university, there's probably nothing they can do.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#163
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unfortunately for these 10 ex-applicants of Harvard they might not get into any University period for 2017/2018... This isn't a small implication to them for stupid posts online. I'm not 100% sure if I feel that's fair. them not getting into Harvard is one thing but losing education at this point in time is even worse.

You can get fired from a job at private company for posting racist material on the internet. I'm not sure how acceptance to a private college is any different. It's better that they learn this lesson now, rather than when a salary depends on it. They're smart/accomplished enough to get into Harvard and they'll all likely rebound from this.

> They're smart/accomplished enough to get into Harvard and they'll all likely rebound from this.

only the part that is messed up with this is after you get enrolled you usually send out a letter to other colleges/university to decline their offers... in my past experience after a decline their isn't a second chance. this puts all of them on a 1 year stand by. Really this is fair? - and they still have another 4 years to grow up and grow before joining a professional 'salary' job 18-23 year old? generally they would be between 17-18 years old and for such an petty issue will now have a hell of a time rebounding.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The students in the spinoff group exchanged memes and images “mocking sexual assault, the Holocaust and the deaths of children,” sometimes directing jokes at specific ethnic or racial groups, the Crimson reported. One message “called the hypothetical hanging of a Mexican child ‘piñata time’” while other messages quipped that “abusing children was sexually arousing,” according to images of the chat described by the…

I don't care what they said. If it's against the law, let the law deal with it. If it's covered under freedom of speech, let them speak.

They are allowed to speak. Harvard is allowed to withdraw their acceptances. No legal charges have been pressed against them.

There you go-- freedom of speech.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#165
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is lots of speech I dislike and don't support, but I don't oppress speakers or advocate for their oppression because I don't want people oppressing me when the tide turns. Supporting free speech is not the same as supporting the content of the speech. Also worth pointing out that Harvard receives a lot of public dollars, so it's not the canonical private institution. Remember when everyone freaked out that the…

I'm not out passing any laws banning racist shit, but it sounds like you're saying I can't even get it out of my life if I want to. Again, how did we get here??

Why does it sound like that to you? I'm all for freedom of association, I just don't think we should suggest that entities which don't prohibit offensive speech (E.g., the government) are necessarily supporting it.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then you support removing all government funding from the college, yes?

Why would I want that? The government funds private institutions all the time. Doesn't make them less private. If the government wants to run Harvard, then it can tell Harvard who it can and can't admit.

> Doesn't make them less private.

Doesn't it? "Who pays the piper..."

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then you support removing all government funding from the college, yes?

Why would I want that? The government funds private institutions all the time. Doesn't make them less private. If the government wants to run Harvard, then it can tell Harvard who it can and can't admit.

Ok, now I can see why we disagree.

Private/public is, to me, not binary. There are degrees. A homeowner, for instance, does get a favored tax status where it comes to income taxes (though the home owner also pays heavy property taxes that largely offset this). Yet we wouldn't regulate what people are allowed to talk about in their own home.

But on this continuum, Harvard is pretty far toward the "public" side of private. Massive amounts of government funding and tax exemptions.

And anyway, the government wouldn't need to get in the business of running Harvard, it could just say "here are the criteria for receiving federal grants and the tax exemptions". Harvard would be free to choose.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#169
One issue is the prevailing idea that all/most online interactions should be shared publicly. It would still have been ill-advised to make these jokes even in private, but I’d go so far as to say there’s a big concrete difference betweeen expressing yourself privately versus publicly. Your friends have a lot of context with which to judge you and your words, but the public doesn’t. You might say something sarcastically or in jest, but someone else might conclude that you believe it earnestly[1]. And if you ARE earnestly expressing yourself and feel like your ideas deserve public platform, then you need to have thought ahead about what kinds of responses you might get.

[1] See also Poe’s Law.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#170

I'm so conflicted right now. On the one hand, yeah, that shit is offensive and I'm not too keen on elevating a person who makes jokes about sexual assault or violence against minorities. On the other hand I'm terrified at the creeping surveillance society that has institutions examining all of our utterances for "wrong speech", which is much too close for comfort to "wrong think", which is much too close for comfort…

Dystopian fiction has given so much terrorizing weight to the concept of "thoughtcrime" and "wrong think" that I think people forget how much positive effect a culture can have on widespread mindsets and stopping ignorance. There are some ignorant thoughts that have almost entirely fallen out of the collective consciousness (in terms of serious belief, not abstract discussion of the past). (As a random example, there…

The argument presupposes that we are somehow aware of some sort of perfect moral standard at this point in time and that the only thing left to do is to implement it to all of society through the method you describe.

In the era where they saw disease as a divine punishment, most people no doubt held this belief as well.

In reality, moral standards will shift around as they always do, some parts will lose their luster and others will be strengthened. New standards will emerge and make our current progressive ideals seem distant and alien, the same way we look at medieval ostracism.

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