a) College isn't a vocational school. b) It should be free.
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On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return
551–560 of 669 posts
Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return
#552As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…
> Wasting four years is a huge cost. At college I: learned calculus, computer programming, advanced mathematics, urban planning, how to communicate like a grown up, and those are just the big topics. I also took acting classes and learned social skills and made lifelong friends. When I graduated, a professor arranged my first professional job which was an order of magnitude better than any blue collar gig I had ever…
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Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return
#553Earlier quoted context omitted.
Electricians, plumbers, etc. all make very good money without 4- year degrees. But nobody aspires to these professions nowadays - everybody assumed they must go to university.
But it's not about "making very good money"--you look at who runs the country and it's a tiny few who attended a select group of institutions. It makes the whole "American Dream" concept a huge lie. But you can't tell a kid "you'll never be a CEO" but chances are if their father isn't one and they don't go to a big name school, they truly will never be one. Everything about our country is one big lie.
The American dream isn't about becoming C-level or running the country.
College is oversold but the American Dream is alive if you go to a cheap school and buy a house in a smaller city or burbs. There are plenty of great cities and emerging ones with jobs and reasonable cost of living.
However, if you choose to buy crap you don't need and succomb to debt, that's not America's fault. That's yours.
But yes it's dead in LA, NYC and SF. You have to be a top performer there. But that's just supply and demand. Nobody owes you the American Dream in those cities. You aren't entitled to it.
Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return
#554Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe there is something wrong with the way you present yourself or your skills? Or maybe money is somehow blinding you, I'm sure there are plenty of jobs if you are not going to for super high salaries (or maybe that is the norm in the US, I don't know, but at least here if you aren't asking for the Moon and you know basics for programming you can get a job for sure)
I've just applied to whatever was there regardless of the posted salary. I've shown my resume to various people in the field and they said it was fine aside from a few conflicting opinions of moving one thing somewhere else or other minor details.
> I've shown my resume to various people in the field and they said it was fine aside from a few conflicting opinions of moving one thing somewhere else or other minor details.
I learned the hard way that, generally, games reflect poorly in many non-NYC/LA/SEA cities. For some reason I will never understand, people think they're easy or that you're a liar. Get in to some new projects and generalize what you did in to specific tasks that demonstrate competence. E.g. I worked on an "MMO-ish" game with about 500 users a month (30 - 40 concurrent). I ended up making no mention it was a game but rather referred to it as a networking system I built in college :) Once I got in to the room, I would de-emphasize that it was a game and focus on some of the cool stuff I did.
Many years of reviewing and having my resume reviewed by varying people (HR, managers in varying trades, etc) has made me come to the conclusion that unless your resume is "Good", it's bad. Also keep in mind tech people are often the last people to review your resume. You're selling yourself (your product) to HR first and tech people second. You need to find managers and HR folks and have them review your resume. Alternatively, some markets have very good recruiter firms that can help tailor your resume to the local market and attract lots of job options.
What people you've talked to are nicely telling you is that your resume is not good enough to get noticed. Your resume is good enough when you hear "Hey, this is good. In fact, I wish (we're hiring/most were this good/I knew you were looking)!"
It sounds like you already have the right attitude, but you need to stand out. Because you aren't living knee-deep in a big city and no appreciable experience, you're at a huge disadvantage. But all of that can be overcome with a pivot on your part, I think.
Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return
#555As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…
> Wasting four years is a huge cost. At college I: learned calculus, computer programming, advanced mathematics, urban planning, how to communicate like a grown up, and those are just the big topics. I also took acting classes and learned social skills and made lifelong friends. When I graduated, a professor arranged my first professional job which was an order of magnitude better than any blue collar gig I had ever…
Loads of people in the same situation as you attended a larger school starting freshmen year, accrued 20k+ in loans per year, may or may not have even graduated, and now work low/middle income level jobs. It sounds like you had a really good idea of how to effectively go to college. A lot of 17/18 year old kids just dont look that far ahead.
Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return
#556Earlier quoted context omitted.
Causation goes the other way: Reagan's prioritization of tax cuts over public education led to tuition increases, which lead to an increased demand for loans to pay the higher tuition.
I don't see it that way. The 80s "greed is good" mentality laid the groundwork for the fleecing, but that was not Reagan's fault other than perhaps that administration was the time when financialization of everything began. Think "junk bonds" then think "loans that can't be discharged in bankruptcy."
Reagan was the one who re-introduced tuition (at all) to the University of California system in the first place.
Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return
#557If you don't want to invest a lot of money in tuition and want to learn programation, I went to the 42 school which is free and it made me an excellent programmer : https://www.42.us.org/
Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return
#558Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can't discharge college loans if taken from a federal program. Unlike other ventures where you can pay pennies on the dollar when you bet and lose, such loans are pursued by the full force of the United States.
They also come with income based repayment plans that mean you'll never have to pay more than 10% of your discretionary income (income above 10% of the poverty line), and they are cancelled after 20 years of payment.
thats only if its government loans. Private loans are still not dischargeable and don't have income based repayment
Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return
#559Earlier quoted context omitted.
So since state interference is the cause for unaffordable tuition costs, more state interference will fix the problem ?
"Since programmers caused all the bugs, more programmers will fix them?" Well, yes; software is on average more reliable today than 15 years ago. This has the same structure as your argument and is incorrect, so you have to add something specific to government to repair the argument structure.
If you have a software problem, and your solution is to throw more programmers at it, you now have two problems.
Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return
#560Earlier quoted context omitted.
This article from 538 argues that almost 3/4 of the rise in tuition is accounted for by a drop in state support. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/fancy-dorms-arent-the-m...
I came here to say this. My wife left the private sector four years ago to work in higher ed. This was a huge epiphany to both of us after she had been there a while and we could see the big picture from the inside. Sure there are a couple other factors at play, but it's small potatoes, comparatively. If you look at the big state schools and the support they receive from the community, they've systematically had thei…
Serious point: let's say that, to you personally, investing in the stock market and going to college are a wash. They're not a wash for the state. The state gets more taxes from your higher-paying job. The chances are you're also helping to support some lower-paying jobs as part of your industry. So it's not unreasonable to expect the state to contribute to actually making this happen.
The benefits are actually much larger than I've just described. There's a snowball effect as the industries of the state move up the ladder. America is currently benefiting from past state investment in education. (There's intangible benefits too, but for these purposes let's just talk about the benefits the state accrues.)