On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return • Hacker News Board

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#541

Post by fivestar » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 1:41 PM UTC

del82 wrote: post #313

BrandonMarc wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does an increased demand for loans lead to funding the Reagan tax cuts?

Causation goes the other way: Reagan's prioritization of tax cuts over public education led to tuition increases, which lead to an increased demand for loans to pay the higher tuition.

I don't see it that way. The 80s "greed is good" mentality laid the groundwork for the fleecing, but that was not Reagan's fault other than perhaps that administration was the time when financialization of everything began. Think "junk bonds" then think "loans that can't be discharged in bankruptcy."

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#542

Post by throwawayjava » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 1:43 PM UTC

jrs95 wrote: post #518

throwawayjava wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...again, that's why you don't do that with hypotheticals intended to be social commentary. Good social commentary helps us identify and solve problems. I don't think this particular commentary puts us in a good mindset for understanding or solving the problems with higher education funding in the united states. > The article is saying "wow, college is sure overpriced for the amount of money you invest." The articl…

That's assuming that these degrees are actually necessary for these people to do their jobs, which isn't the case the majority of the time in my opinion

Read through the list of S&P 500 stocks.

Almost none of those companies could exist -- especially at their current scale -- without a huge pool of college-educated engineers/scientists/doctors.

There may be a lot of employees there not using their degrees. But the true value creators at S&P 500 companies are certainly not those people.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#543

Post by zzzzzzzza » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 1:50 PM UTC

prirun wrote: post #530

In 2007, the Fed balance sheet was $858B. From http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/10/understand... : "The Fed had assets worth $858 billion on its book in the week ended on Aug 1, 2007 just before the start of the financial crisis" From http://www.investopedia.com/insights/how-will-fed-reduce-bal... , the Fed now has $4.5 TRILLION in assets. IOW, they have injected $3.6T into the economy by pushing button…

Have created infaltion IMO? Have you looked at the rate of inflation in the US since 2007? For the most part, well under 2%, which is the Fed's mandate and a healthy level of inflation.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#544

Post by fivestar » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 1:51 PM UTC

strommen wrote: post #439

ethbro wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Above and beyond that, and to crib on one of the grandparent comments re: "Eventually, demand will decrease if prices continue increasing": If the minimum barrier to employment is having a college degree, then people will continue doing whatever they have to in order to get a college degree. The only way you're going to change demand is if decent jobs start being created that don't require a bachelor's degree. And I…

Electricians, plumbers, etc. all make very good money without 4- year degrees. But nobody aspires to these professions nowadays - everybody assumed they must go to university.

But it's not about "making very good money"--you look at who runs the country and it's a tiny few who attended a select group of institutions. It makes the whole "American Dream" concept a huge lie. But you can't tell a kid "you'll never be a CEO" but chances are if their father isn't one and they don't go to a big name school, they truly will never be one.

Everything about our country is one big lie.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#545

Post by gravypod » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 2:03 PM UTC

I'm a Junior in college and I initially thought college wasn't worth it by the numbers. I was going here because.. well... I had no idea what to do. I've now come around.

College is absolutely useless unless you find every possible way to waste every other student's money on things you want to do. The education you'll get is going to be sub-par (unless you're going to a big-5), the professors are short tempered and provide poor service, and you're going to have to learn a hole bunch of things you honestly don't give a crap about.

At my college you need to take Calculus 2 to be able to take Linear Algebra..... If you follow the standard course layout you'll probably be taking Lin on your Senior year. This is after 2 courses in discrete math where you apply Lin!

It's a joke. It's a fares. We all know it's BS. But it's worth it if you take advantage of every single service.

    1. Use your college email to get software
    2. Use your college email to get hardware (starving artist discount)
    3. Take advantage of internal funding to do research you want to do.
    4. Start clubs in your subject area. (My college provides $700/semester for each club!)
    5. Talk to, and get to know, all of your good profs
    6. Talk to, and get to know, researchers
    7. Take advantage of student discounts (Amazon Prime, etc).
    8. Your school will likely give you a laptop discount
    9. Find the IT gift shop (trash room). Free hardware!
   10. Find a job on campus if you otherwise have nothing to do.

So far, in my 2 full years of school, I've presented research findings at an international conference, funded my own research from an internal grant solicitation, obtained piles and piles of cheap software and hardware, I'm attempting to upgrade my Thinkpad to one of the new x260/x270s via a school program, and my next project is to start a Retro-Computer Club at NJIT.

I'm starting this club because I don't have $700/semester to spend on old hardware nor do I have the space to store old hardware in my shoebox apartment. You know who does? My school! Hopefully by my senior year I'll have created a mini-museum for the rest of the students. I'll have to brush off my old OS kernel I started and re-read my copy of Operating Systems Implementation and Design.

Unfortunately not every student can do all of these things. With my school's tuition being 20k/year I'm easily milking 5 to 10k/year back out of the university. If everyone did this then the money pot would run dry.

If you're not going to use everything you're paying for, you're getting ripped off. Classes aren't worth 5k/year, let alone whatever you're being charged.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#546

Post by knicholes » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 2:08 PM UTC

Purely financially I can see how this applies to many people. There are other ways going to college benefits one's life "financially"that aren't directly visible, like improved health care and possibly a job that doesn't wear down your body so quickly (to save on medical expenses later).

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#547

Post by matwood » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 2:12 PM UTC

imesh wrote: post #54

staticelf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

Education in America is cheap, the problem is people don't go to their local school, they see college as an experience where they travel halfway across the country and stay in student housing.

I don't think it's exactly cheap, but I agree with your point. US kids have this idea that college is about living away no someone else dime for 4 years. That's always going to be expensive. Instead, live at home and go to a local college. Admittedly not everyone lives close to an okay school, but many do. It's what I did, and with a 20-30 hour/week job I graduated with near zero debt.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#548

Post by mi100hael » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 2:17 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #396

krakensden wrote: post #46

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…

My whole life adults around me (school teachers included) kept telling me I was a genius, that I should go to college, and then I would become rich. When I turned 18, I asked people around me to let me study on my own for a year, before I joined a college. Got a big flat no. People told me to just choose a private college if needed, but that I should go to one no matter what. I am now 29, unemployed, still in debt. C…

Sounds like there were more problems than just "going to college for 4 years."

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#549

Post by ska » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 2:21 PM UTC

prostoalex wrote: post #455

learc83 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article from 538 argues that almost 3/4 of the rise in tuition is accounted for by a drop in state support. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/fancy-dorms-arent-the-m...

For a pure apples-to-apples price comparison it's reasonable to use an out-of-state tuition that's free of state support, grants or scholarships, as that reflects the true price sticker. The rise in college tuition is the most baffling, as this industry refuses the amortize costs. The buildings have been built, the books have been written, the intro courses have been handed down to graduate students, the handouts are…

What is baffling about it? This has turned into a very effective method of wealth transfer. I think some combination of the rise in administrative overheads and the involvement of private finance with government protection explain almost all of it.

Asking young humans with incomplete information to make a decision with long term financial impacts is a good gig, especially when "all their friends" are doing it.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#550

Post by gwern » Mon, Jun 05, 2017, 2:24 PM UTC

swsieber wrote: post #164

I'm surprise nobody had mentioned tulips. http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/06/06/against-tulip-subsidies...

Or http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/23/ssc-gives-a-graduation-... where Scott points out that the same question applies to lower education as well: we spend something like $100,000 on lower education per pupil (pre-school, kindergarten, 5 grades elementary, 3 grades middle, 4 grades high school = 14 years at ~$7k/year/pupil on the low end), which would be even higher if invested and compounded for ~18 years, but when you compare to unschooled or homeschooled kids the benefit of making six figures of expenses plus stealing everyone's childhoods is... hard to see.