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On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

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Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#151

Post by Cyph0n »

ooqr wrote: post #121
staticelf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

That's still time opportunity cost for the student and merely shifts the financial burden. I'm not against a liberal education for the betterment of the person, but it's not a sound investment. We should not aim to make college free by means of government sponsorship, but rather education free or inexpensive by means of lowering the actual costs. As someone else said in this thread, certain kinds of knowledge are rat…

> We should not aim to make college free by means of government sponsorship, but rather education free or inexpensive by means of lowering the actual costs.

I think that you're vastly underestimating how much money is needed to provide quality higher education. Trust me, the last thing we need is a race to the bottom when it comes to higher education.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#152

Post by HarryHirsch »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #114
yequalsx wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that include cost of building the stadium? The gyms? I don't think it does.

The stadium has been there since 1929, so presumably. Upkeep is not $50 million.

Building maintenance isn't free and comes out of university funds. Especially at state schools you see politicians posing in front of a new building they have arranged funding for. Trouble is, the new building requires maintenance, as does the existing building stock, and oftentimes it would make better economic sense to renovate the buildings that are already there as you don't increase the number of buildings. But you won't find a politician to pose in front of a renovation, consequently you won't get free state money either.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#153

Post by efa »

vilmosi wrote: post #75
efa wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Say a grandparent left a grandchild 50k for college. It's the grandchild's money. The grandchild could choose to invest in college or the market. This may not be a common scenario but that's what I meant.

> Say a grandparent left a grandchild 50k for college. It's the grandchild's money. Well if somebody gives you money for X it's not really your money since you are not at liberty to spend it however you want. Only X is technically yours.

Okay, left you 50k inheritance to do whatever you want with it.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#154

Post by mnm1 »

krakensden wrote: post #46

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…

In other words, stay dumb, education is not worth it. Yup, that's exactly what our culture needs more of.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#155

Post by smsm42 »

mrep wrote: post #132
smsm42 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't regret time spent getting higher ed, but I 1) worked while studying 2) didn't end up with debt 3) didn't do it in the US. I honestly have no idea what I would do in US with 100k+ debt load projected at the end of college. I wasn't that financially educated at 17-18... I don't think any common school even cares to give such tools to people. I guess I am lucky I hadn't have to face this problem, but I am kind o…

Average student debt in the US is only $37,172 [1] which is not insurmountable to pay off. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt#United_States

Better than I thought, but the trend is not inspiring. 37k is already a lot, and it keeps raising. I think it used to be that if you work while you study and don't go to elite school, you can graduate with little to no debt, not the case anymore. It was $17k even in 2003[1]. Now 37k. In 10 years? Either the trend breaks downward very soon, or we're facing a major crisis there.

[1] http://www.onlinecolleges.net/student-debt-in-the-u-s-part-2...

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#156

Post by solomatov »

The problem is that keeping this investment and not spending it on useless things like new car, fancy apartment, designer clothing, etc, requires very large willpower. So, psychologically, it makes sense to get an education, and find some job.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#157

Post by solomatov »

The problem is that keeping this investment and not spending it on useless things like new car, fancy apartment, designer clothing, etc, requires very large willpower. So, psychologically, it makes sense to get an education, and find some job.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#158

Post by HarryHirsch »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #124
HarryHirsch wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have students transfer in from the local community college. They struggle mightily, some even survive. With online labs in the physical sciences (instead of real glassware) it's an experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone. You can't call it education, the level is too low for that.

Didn't realize I was so unprepared for my schooling. Thank you for letting me know. Do you think they'll give me my money back?

My undergraduate supervisor would say that you mustn't suppress outliers, it distorts the statistics.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#159

Post by IkmoIkmo »

whyenot wrote: post #136

Tuition at a California State University is only $5,472 a year. That is pretty darn close to free. Many other state schools have low tuition. Nearly 500,000 students in California attend a CSU. Almost twice as many students as attend a UC school. Yet, in these kind of analyses, these low cost state schools always seem to get the shaft when in fact they educate a tremendous number of students at very low cost. https:/…

There's still opportunity costs to consider. For example, in the Netherlands tuition is about 2k a year (the rest is subsidised). Education is top-notch (pretty much all of our universities are top 5% worldwide), although we don't have any of the top 0.1% institutions that educate a relative handful of students. (e.g. Harvard with 2k students per year)

But despite cheap tuition fees, the average person would spend 5 years on a 4 year degree. Spending 7 years for a Masters' is not uncommon, i.e. starting at age 18 and completing your education at age 25.

The real cost then isn't tuition, it's opportunity costs. When you can make 15x your tuition-fees a year, but you can't because you're studying full-time, that's the real cost.

And 7 years at a Dutch GDP of around 45k is an economic production that's nothing to be scoffed at, exceeding 300k. Of course, a high-school graduate's income isn't average, but on the other hand considering 'only' 13% of the kids in our educational system end up doing a Master's degree, examining the kids who'd otherwise go to university are likely to have above-average earning potential. All in all, it's not crazy to assume we're looking at a minimum cost of 100k.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#160

Post by GhostVII »

staticelf wrote: post #47
krakensden wrote: post #46

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

Why don't you subsidize it so it is affordable, but not free? In Canada I pay ~8k per term (and that's higher than most Canadian schools), which I think is pretty reasonable. Plus there are tuition discounts for lower income levels, so it's more affordable for them. Seems to work pretty well, I think making it free would cause people to get more useless degrees, which would just cost taxpayers money for no reason.
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