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On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

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Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#121

Post by ooqr »

staticelf wrote: post #47
krakensden wrote: post #46

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

That's still time opportunity cost for the student and merely shifts the financial burden.

I'm not against a liberal education for the betterment of the person, but it's not a sound investment.

We should not aim to make college free by means of government sponsorship, but rather education free or inexpensive by means of lowering the actual costs. As someone else said in this thread, certain kinds of knowledge are rather cheap to be had. Yet even so, degrees are pursued blindly by students, and hired blindly by employers.

Again, there's plenty of benefit to schooling. I liked taking classes with peers, including the non-major classes (for the most part). But throwing more money at the problem is the problem.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#122

Post by staticelf »

ferongr wrote: post #62
staticelf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

College is not "free" in the "modern world" whatever that means.

Obviously I was wrong, but it is free in many european countries. Payed for by tax payers. The same tax payers that once enjoyed a free education.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#123

Post by jxub »

I paid 35EUR for first year of CS here in Spain. Next ones will cost me ~1500EUR (no scholarship assumed). Pretty good deal even then though, to what adds up low cost of living.

Maybe get out of the US: Germany, Italy, France, Poland, Spain. Sometimes, the grass may be greener and costs/ROI better.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#124

Post by aaron-lebo »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #108
aaron-lebo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to two years of community college for under 2k. My parents invested in a state program when I was younger which promised to pay for 4 years of state schooling. Not sure exactly how much they put in, but had you withdrawn the amount to use it for private schooling it was like 10k, so I'm assuming not much more than that. Because community college was so cheap, I was able to use that other funding to pay for a g…

We have students transfer in from the local community college. They struggle mightily, some even survive. With online labs in the physical sciences (instead of real glassware) it's an experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone. You can't call it education, the level is too low for that.

Didn't realize I was so unprepared for my schooling. Thank you for letting me know.

Do you think they'll give me my money back?

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#125

Post by somethingwitty1 »

chillwaves wrote: post #56
pokemongoaway wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're arguing that everyone should pay for it and go to it until we make it free? Why can't we argue using the reality college tuition payers have today? Instead of arguing from a fairy tale reality for high tuition payers...

Because the argument is society reaps the benefit of an educated populace, secondly yes, everyone should pay for qualified individuals to go to college, as most or much of the civilized world does. That does not mean free college for everyone. There would still be a stringent entrance exam. It means free college for those who are qualified. Contrast that to the system now where college is seen as just another marketi…

So by keeping out the "unqualified" we continue to increase the gap between the haves and the have nots? I'm not suggesting that is your intention behind the statement, but that is the harsh reality of what will happen. A policy like this will continue to discriminate against the poor and those stuck in areas without access to decent primary/secondary education (inner-city comes to mind).

Despite the numerous issues with the american primary/secondary education system, I'd imagine you'd struggle to find many arguing that making secondary education free to everyone (qualified or not) wasn't a net benefit for the US.

It is my personal feeling that the entrance exams that used to exist as a barrier to secondary education were awful and unfair. Everyone should have a right to choose their direction, instead of being told you have to start a job/family. Based on the success of eliminating that barrier, I feel opening up university/college to everyone should be the goal of any civilized society.

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#126

Post by mrep »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #99
ma2rten wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, education in America is expensive. If tuition was free or cheap, you could work part-time to pay living expenses and take more time to finish your degree as many students in Europe do.

More important: if tuition were free you could fail your students. With the present model there is a perverse incentive to pass everyone no matter what because they pay the salary.

Maybe for ivy league schools but there are lots of others that do not grade inflate [1].

[1]: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/grade-inflation-colleges-with-th...

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#128

Post by bko »

staticelf wrote: post #47
krakensden wrote: post #46

As a culture, we really need to stop telling 17 year olds to not worry about money, go to college, and figure something out. There is always someone ready with a romantic appeal to a classical education, and it is so frustrating for me. Wasting four years is a huge cost. Years, decades of debt is a huge cost. Going to college with no plan about money? The costs are assured. Plus, the degrees people are actually getti…

What about... offering college for free like the rest of the modern world? Then you would only have to worry about living costs and those loans are pretty small. I could pay off mine in like 4-5 years if I really wanted to. Plus, then people still could get an education even if their parents didn't save up for you. What about as a society/culture you start telling people that the country should offer education for fr…

Sure, just convince the professors, real estate developers, janitors and everyone else involved in higher education to work for free.

Otherwise, someone is paying for it. If its a bad investment, its a bad investment, whether tax payers or students pay

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#129

Post by SPBesui »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #96
SPBesui wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a common misconception. Very few college athletic departments are in the black. And even among those, usually only football and men's basketball make any money at all. Sorry no link...should be easy to google statistics.

Every single one of those programs listed is making money, though. That's also easily Googleable and you can see that above link. It might be wise to not link to an article in which every single sports program is massively profitable as an example of how college sports are causing financial issues. There's an argument to be made for that, but that link isn't it.

The parent comment to my previous was completely rewritten after I replied. It originally said something like "those athletic programs make tons of money for their schools." I was just saying that only a relative few really made a lot of money, which is what the link shows (as you said).

Re: On average, skipping college and investing tuition costs nets a higher return

#130

Post by vacri »

Yes, if you invest your tuition and never touch it for a quarter of a century, you'll have mildly more money than if you went to college. In the meantime you'll be doing... what... to put food in your mouth and improve your lifestyle? Civil engineering interests you? Oh well, here are some schlub jobs for you to do to wait out your quarter-century maturation.

And as we can't help but hear, so many students are complaining about their student loans. For these people, what is the P&L statement going to look like after not touching their tuition for 24 years? It's not usually a winning strategy to borrow money for long-term investment...

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