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Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

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Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#81

Post by oliwarner »

_ibu9 wrote: post #75
yongjik wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This links sums up nicely why that's the only practical way for software companies: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr... > Your game designer works for a year and invents 7 games. At the end of the year, she sues you, claiming that she owns 4 of them, because those particular games were invented between 5pm and 9am, when she wasn’t on duty. > Ooops. That’s not what you meant. You wanted to…

I feel bad for people with this bootlicker mindset... If I get sued for violating the contract well that sucks for me but I'm certainly not going to feel bad for it.

Bootlicker? If you sign a contract, you are saying you're alright with it.

You're saying you're happy to reneg on contractual terms. Good luck in life but those of us who stand by our word want nothing to do with you.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#82

Post by kmicklas »

throwaway-1209 wrote: post #79
_ibu9 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel bad for people with this bootlicker mindset... If I get sued for violating the contract well that sucks for me but I'm certainly not going to feel bad for it.

Words of a man with not much to lose. Once your net worth is in multiple millions, the calculation will change quite a bit. You will most definitely not want to lose your life's savings on a moral crusade.

Yeah of course, I'm not saying the contract wouldn't have an influence on my actions, just that I don't (and you shouldn't) feel a moral/ethical obligation to follow it.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#83

Post by kmicklas »

oliwarner wrote: post #81
_ibu9 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel bad for people with this bootlicker mindset... If I get sued for violating the contract well that sucks for me but I'm certainly not going to feel bad for it.

Bootlicker? If you sign a contract, you are saying you're alright with it. You're saying you're happy to reneg on contractual terms. Good luck in life but those of us who stand by our word want nothing to do with you.

> If you sign a contract, you are saying you're alright with it.

No, you are saying you don't want to be unemployed and starve on the streets.

> Good luck in life but those of us who stand by our word want nothing to do with you.

Standing by your word to other human beings is of course a commendable quality, standing by your word to corporations, not so much.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#84

Post by kmicklas »

throwaway-1209 wrote: post #80
posguy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you agree with me in principle, but when it comes to action you feel we should fuck over the worker in the name of profit? To quote Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefer…

It's fuck or get fucked. I'd rather not get fucked, same as you. It's just that now I'm on the other end.

Yeah but in this fucked up battle, you are the bad guy and the employee is not.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#85

Post by justboxing »

> My mentor suggested to stay at Google until I find an interesting startup idea to work on.

and

>I want to spend 6 months in SE Asia and travel the world before starting my company.

You may spend months trying to "find an interesting startup idea" to work on here and come up empty, whereas if you take off and spend even 1 month in SE Asia and the developing world, you might discover tons of startup ideas that are really worth solving for the 3rd world.

I know of several Indian-Americans who traveled in India for a few months, and built cost-effective phones that work on very low bandwidth, apps that help buy stuff in an almost all-cash economy.

A low-risk option would be to take a month off from Google (vacation) plan your trip in advance, visit just 1 single SE Asian country (Vietnam, India, Thailand whatever you fancy) and see what happens.

These countries also have coworking spaces with Hi speed internet, so you could in theory, take action on a startup idea, and build an MVP in a month's time (or even less) and drop it on the internets and see what happens.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#86

Post by throwaway-1209 »

kmicklas wrote: post #82
throwaway-1209 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words of a man with not much to lose. Once your net worth is in multiple millions, the calculation will change quite a bit. You will most definitely not want to lose your life's savings on a moral crusade.

Yeah of course, I'm not saying the contract wouldn't have an influence on my actions, just that I don't (and you shouldn't) feel a moral/ethical obligation to follow it.

And that's exactly what those contracts are aiming for: not to control your mind, but to establish a deterrent from much more nefarious shenanigans, if thoughts of such shenanigans arise. Some of the top Silicon Valley companies (dating all the way back to the 70's) would simply not exist if those contracts were followed to the letter.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#87

Post by openmosix »

As someone who has done this a few times (worked for large enterprise / found a problem worth to solve / started a company solving that problem / being acquired by other enterprise that wanted our solution exclusively): don't look for "ideas", but explore "problems". Working in an enterprise is great, because you are exposed - every day - to things that do not work in enterprise. For each problem you meet, ask yourself "would someone pay enough $$$ to get this problem solved once and for all?". If the answer is yes (and the problem is inspiring enough for you to dedicate 5+ years on that) the next phase is: what the distribution channel for a solution would be? Is the market too fragmented? How I would reach out to customers? What would be the cost to attract/retain customers? If you figure it out (and it seems a problem/distribution channel that works) - the next step is to think about a generic solution. Now you can test the "let's try to attract customers, for this problem, on my prototype/landing page". If the cycle starts to work, now it's time to figure out whether you want to quit and build the company/product/solution for real. The good of this process is that is 100% compatible with whatever NDA/NC/IP you might have signed, because you haven't written any lines of code up to this point. And when you leave, you have a solid framework of what you'll be doing next.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#88

Post by throwaway-1209 »

kmicklas wrote: post #83
oliwarner wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bootlicker? If you sign a contract, you are saying you're alright with it. You're saying you're happy to reneg on contractual terms. Good luck in life but those of us who stand by our word want nothing to do with you.

> If you sign a contract, you are saying you're alright with it. No, you are saying you don't want to be unemployed and starve on the streets. > Good luck in life but those of us who stand by our word want nothing to do with you. Standing by your word to other human beings is of course a commendable quality, standing by your word to corporations, not so much.

No one in our industry will "starve on the streets" in the foreseeable future. They may have to take a smaller paycheck with a contract that doesn't have the clauses they don't like, but let's not engage in histrionics here. And I agree with the parent, your choice of language is inappropriate and tiresome. You're posting to a forum read by literally thousands of people you're calling "bootlickers". Not smart.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#89

Post by the_hn_sux »

nathantotten wrote: post #22

Another option, why not find a startup that you can join remotely while traveling? Unless you really want to not work for 6 months, working during the week and exploring on the weekend while living anywhere might be a nice balance. You'll get experience that will help when you find what you want to do on your own. From a life standpoint traveling for some time is a great experience. From a career standpoint, having a…

> 2 years is about the absolute minimum you should stay at one company.

Meh. It depends on how well the company is doing. If someone stayed 2 years at a company doing badly instead of leave soon I'd be more worried they want to be cogs instead of innovators. (It's a two way street ;)

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#90

Post by falsedan »

throwaway-1209 wrote: post #69
falsedan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about plain-old unpaided leave?

6 months "to travel"? Your manager will laugh you out of the conference room. A month, that should be doable.

As a manager, I would listen to the IC's request, say "I'll see what options are available, let's come back to this next week in out 1-to-1", and then go to my boss to see how much time we can offer/how to implement a vesting holiday.

If the options are: lose someone for 6 months, or lose someone completely; I'd push strongly for the former.

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