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Ask HN: Why does visual programming suck?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does visual programming suck?

#31

Post by Edmond »

radva42 wrote: post #24

I've been working on a project that does exactly what you described for the last few years. IMHO vue.js/react really changed the game here, especially for CRUD apps. For example what I did was to code a server part in golang and use vue.js on the frontend and for the app builder. Using the web-based app builder (also 100% vue) the user can design forms. The forms are stored as serialized JSON in the database and the…

I too am curious about what you've built, feel free to email me (on my profile)...I have been working on Solvent (link in profile) and have been exploring Angular or Vue as the UI building component.

Re: Ask HN: Why does visual programming suck?

#32

Post by adambratt »

radva42 wrote: post #24

I've been working on a project that does exactly what you described for the last few years. IMHO vue.js/react really changed the game here, especially for CRUD apps. For example what I did was to code a server part in golang and use vue.js on the frontend and for the app builder. Using the web-based app builder (also 100% vue) the user can design forms. The forms are stored as serialized JSON in the database and the…

Also very curious to see what you've built as I'm building something similar right now. Would you mind sending a link to adam@useindio.com?

Re: Ask HN: Why does visual programming suck?

#35

Post by pshc »

meredydd wrote: post #23
pshc wrote: post #15

I'd like to share some thoughts: - Visual programming tools usually only work at one abstraction level (your first point) - Often centered around a gimmick and cannot encode "normal" detail-oriented imperative code efficiently - Only a fraction of a given program is amenable to flow charts, Visual Basic-style forms, etc. Unfortunately, most visual programming environments are all-encompassing. - So VPs tend to become…

> I do believe that a better code editor is possible through non-plaintext programming. (Serialize token trees and ASTs, instead of plaintext.) Funnily enough, this is itself another of those mirages, like visual programming, that have been chased for years and failed to gain traction (outside specialised applications). For my money, the reason for this is that a human editing code needs to write something invalid -…

I've been thinking along the same lines. The "fighting your editor" problem cannot be ignored, and it's common in VPs. Real programming code needs "jank". We need to be able to move between different states:

Bags of characters Unstructured trees of tokens ASTs

(BTW paredit is super cool and I'd like to see more of its kind!)

Re: Ask HN: Why does visual programming suck?

#36

Post by overgard »

I think this is a minority perspective, but I generally think coding has a lot more in common with writing than it does with engineering. (I guess Literate Programming would sort of support this idea). Can you imagine trying to write an essay as a flowchart? I think it would just obscure the point, rather than simplify it.

Re: Ask HN: Why does visual programming suck?

#37

Post by nickpinkston »

threefour wrote: post #18

Imagine a world where people only bought bespoke suits. You go to a tailor and are measured and pick out your fabric and wait a few weeks. Then you pick up your suit. It's perfect. You pay $5000 and take it home. Most of us don't do that. Most of us make due with off the rack suits with some tailoring for 1/10th the price. With programming we have an expectation of bespoke design, so anything less, even if it's much…

More like you please :-)

Re: Ask HN: Why does visual programming suck?

#38

Post by dvdhsu »

radva42 wrote: post #24

I've been working on a project that does exactly what you described for the last few years. IMHO vue.js/react really changed the game here, especially for CRUD apps. For example what I did was to code a server part in golang and use vue.js on the frontend and for the app builder. Using the web-based app builder (also 100% vue) the user can design forms. The forms are stored as serialized JSON in the database and the…

That's cool -- you should share a link! I've actually also been working on something just like this, which is why I asked for feedback with this. I'll post it on HN tomorrow via a Show HN so we can compare!

For anybody interested -- email is in profile. Happy to give you a sneak peek!

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