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Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?
71–80 of 130 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?
#72From someone who's been there done that: former Googler, now running engineering at a startup. It doesn't get any easier to come up with a startup idea once you leave mothership. I know it seems counterintuitive, since once you leave you have nothing else to do but come up with ideas, but you could find that after 6-9 months you still don't have anything you really believe in. That's what happened to me circa 2008. I…
> So your mentor seems to be right, even though what he's suggesting is not 100% ethical: if you read your contract you'll see that all of your software related ideas are property of Google. It is most definitely not unethical to not comply with a bullshit authoritarian contract like that.
This links sums up nicely why that's the only practical way for software companies: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr...
> Your game designer works for a year and invents 7 games. At the end of the year, she sues you, claiming that she owns 4 of them, because those particular games were invented between 5pm and 9am, when she wasn’t on duty.
> Ooops. That’s not what you meant. You wanted to pay her for all the games that she invents, and you recognize that the actual process of invention for which you are paying her may happen at any time… on weekdays, weekends, in the office, in the cubicle, at home, in the shower, climbing a mountain on vacation.
> So before you hire this developer, you agree, “hey listen, I know that inventing happens all the time, and it’s impossible to prove whether you invented something while you were sitting in the chair I supplied in the cubicle I supplied or not. I don’t just want to buy your 9:00-5:00 inventions. I want them all, and I’m going to pay you a nice salary to get them all,” and she agrees to that, so now you want to sign something that says that all her inventions belong to the company for as long as she is employed by the company.
> This is where we are by default. This is the standard employment contract for developers, inventors, and researchers.
On top of that, Google doesn't give a damn if you're spending some of your 9-5 hours walking around the buildings, surfing the web (or the infamous memegen), hanging out with coworkers at the microkitchen, or working out at the gym. Do you also consider these as unethical behavior by employees? By signing the employment contract, both parties are agreeing that they don't really care about 9-5 and work hours. They want all your brain's output, and they're going to pay for it. If you don't like it, you are free to walk away, but that doesn't make the contract "bullshit authoritarian".
Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with you in principle, but I've seen shit you wouldn't believe when there's a few million dollars at stake: otherwise fine, ethical, upstanding human beings can turn into the worst weasels you can imagine if you don't hold the sword of legal retribution over their heads to assure their good faith. You won't quite understand that until you actually work on something you have a vested interest in succeeding, as…
Are they being properly compensated for their time? By that, I mean is the employee being directly compensated for all of the non-work hours the company is claiming ownership of ideas over? Otherwise, if its a classic "Here is a salary and package, we own all your relevant ideas from here on" deal, I'd say that is highly unethical behavior on the company's part, and is a case of wage theft. Should the employee be bar…
If you don't like compensation the door is open, you can leave. Look, I agree with you in principle, but I'm now a large shareholder in a business, so I see the other side of the argument too. The goal isn't really to stop anyone from pursuing something unrelated, an idea that's mostly theirs. The goal is to avoid Levandovsky-style backstabbing. Especially for small companies, this can be fatal.
Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are they being properly compensated for their time? By that, I mean is the employee being directly compensated for all of the non-work hours the company is claiming ownership of ideas over? Otherwise, if its a classic "Here is a salary and package, we own all your relevant ideas from here on" deal, I'd say that is highly unethical behavior on the company's part, and is a case of wage theft. Should the employee be bar…
If you don't like compensation the door is open, you can leave. Look, I agree with you in principle, but I'm now a large shareholder in a business, so I see the other side of the argument too. The goal isn't really to stop anyone from pursuing something unrelated, an idea that's mostly theirs. The goal is to avoid Levandovsky-style backstabbing. Especially for small companies, this can be fatal.
So you agree with me in principle, but when it comes to action you feel we should fuck over the worker in the name of profit?
To quote Martin Luther King Jr.:
"I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom;"
https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham....
Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So your mentor seems to be right, even though what he's suggesting is not 100% ethical: if you read your contract you'll see that all of your software related ideas are property of Google. It is most definitely not unethical to not comply with a bullshit authoritarian contract like that.
This links sums up nicely why that's the only practical way for software companies: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr... > Your game designer works for a year and invents 7 games. At the end of the year, she sues you, claiming that she owns 4 of them, because those particular games were invented between 5pm and 9am, when she wasn’t on duty. > Ooops. That’s not what you meant. You wanted to…
I feel bad for people with this bootlicker mindset...
If I get sued for violating the contract well that sucks for me but I'm certainly not going to feel bad for it.
Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you don't like compensation the door is open, you can leave. Look, I agree with you in principle, but I'm now a large shareholder in a business, so I see the other side of the argument too. The goal isn't really to stop anyone from pursuing something unrelated, an idea that's mostly theirs. The goal is to avoid Levandovsky-style backstabbing. Especially for small companies, this can be fatal.
So you agree with me in principle, but when it comes to action you feel we should fuck over the worker in the name of profit? To quote Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefer…
It's the same bootlicking mentality behind both of these problems.
Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you agree with me in principle, but when it comes to action you feel we should fuck over the worker in the name of profit? To quote Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefer…
It's the same bootlicking mentality behind both of these problems.
Pretty much, I'd much rather talk with a MAGA than a liberal, despite the similarity in views I may share with said liberal.
The former I can often have a sensical conversation with and perhaps change their mind on some issues, the latter feeling an outright opposition to taking action or altering their views.
Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?
#78Think of it this way, would you jump in a luxurious train that can only travel through 10 cities max? Or would you jump in a dirty, cheap and slow train that can go on forever and potentially reach your final destination? Right now you're seating in the 1st class in a local train. You're at the top of the mini-chain. That's what we call the "standard" world. You're dreaming about the "exciting" world, the top %1. When you make the switch you have to jump off the comfy train and you end-up losing your spot. It took you a while to get there. Plus, you'll have to find a spot within that dirty train. Life's tough heh?
People don't like to take risks because they're afraid of making a step backwards. That's where you're are now. The competition starts at an early age, school, college, you want to have the best grades, then your first internship you want to land the best gig in the best company. When you apply you want to work in the best team. But it's really contained within the standard world right? Who defines your goals and your paychecks? People from the "exciting" world. Not you. You can't reach the top %1 because you work for them. You make them what they are. Do it for yourself, be selfish.
You're already going in the right direction, the problem is, you're in the wrong train. Jump off while you're young you'll run fast enough to hop on the dirty train. The journey is long but one day you'll wake up at your final destination. We'll all die one day. You have nothing to lose my friend but a seat in 1st class.
Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
This links sums up nicely why that's the only practical way for software companies: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2016/12/09/developers-side-pr... > Your game designer works for a year and invents 7 games. At the end of the year, she sues you, claiming that she owns 4 of them, because those particular games were invented between 5pm and 9am, when she wasn’t on duty. > Ooops. That’s not what you meant. You wanted to…
I feel bad for people with this bootlicker mindset... If I get sued for violating the contract well that sucks for me but I'm certainly not going to feel bad for it.
Words of a man with not much to lose. Once your net worth is in multiple millions, the calculation will change quite a bit. You will most definitely not want to lose your life's savings on a moral crusade.
Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you don't like compensation the door is open, you can leave. Look, I agree with you in principle, but I'm now a large shareholder in a business, so I see the other side of the argument too. The goal isn't really to stop anyone from pursuing something unrelated, an idea that's mostly theirs. The goal is to avoid Levandovsky-style backstabbing. Especially for small companies, this can be fatal.
So you agree with me in principle, but when it comes to action you feel we should fuck over the worker in the name of profit? To quote Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefer…
It's fuck or get fucked. I'd rather not get fucked, same as you. It's just that now I'm on the other end.