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Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

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Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#51

From someone who's been there done that: former Googler, now running engineering at a startup. It doesn't get any easier to come up with a startup idea once you leave mothership. I know it seems counterintuitive, since once you leave you have nothing else to do but come up with ideas, but you could find that after 6-9 months you still don't have anything you really believe in. That's what happened to me circa 2008. I…

> So your mentor seems to be right, even though what he's suggesting is not 100% ethical: if you read your contract you'll see that all of your software related ideas are property of Google.

It is most definitely not unethical to not comply with a bullshit authoritarian contract like that.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#52
Startup life is really hard - you will have to answer questions much harder than this every day if you do a startup. Therefore, based on my own first hand experience and observation on more than 100 startups I funded, only passion, determination and persistence can make your startup a success.

From this point of view, all the questions can come back to the root question - are you really passionate, determined and persistent by nature? If no working at Google or any other giant companies is way better than doing your own startup; Otherwise, you shouldn't come to Hacker News to ask this question but you have already quit Google because working at Google for one more day is just a waste of your time one more day.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#53
Let's count all the reasons not to leave:

1) If you don't have an amazing idea now, leaving won't make it easier. If anything it will be worse since you won't be constantly exposed to real-life problems.

2) Building great product is about a lot more than ideas. It's about execution, timing, scaling and a ton of luck.

3) After only two years at Google you're probably an L3 or L4 engineer. You have much to learn. Seriously. It probably took you a year to become productive so you've only scratched the surface. Go find a senior mentor and get them to talk about their journey. You'll be surprised.

4) Startups are hard. Don't believe the hype. Your startup will fail you. Even if the startup succeeds, you personally are unlikely to hit a payday. Remember the Golden Rule: Those who have the gold make the rules. The most likely outcome from any startup is that it fails. The second most likely outcome is that it fizzles and gets bought. Your equity would turn into a diluted options over 4 years.

5) In another 3 years at Google you'll save so much money that you'll have an entirely different set of financial options

6) Your long term career impact and financial success will actually be better off if you find a way to apply your ideas and passions within Google.

7) You are currently surrounded by some of the smartest software people in the world working on some of the hardest problems.

8) Look for a transfer to one of Google's SE Asian offices. Lots of interesting projects there.

To be blunt, it sounds like you're finding out that working as a software engineer is, well, work. It is. That doesn't mean you can't find your passion in what you do.

Buy yourself your own computer and work on your dreams at home while receiving the engineering and execution experience of your lifetime. Actively seek to learn more about your craft from a company that is still writing the book on this. Take advantage of internal instruction opportunities to expand your skillset (where else will you get paid to learn about ML from some of the best). Once you've earned your stripes at Google you'll be able to work anywhere on a just about anything. You'll also find that you actually understand the realities of product development and software engineering in ways you do not today.

I started working at Microsoft in the late 80s. I'm now at Google as a PM. I've done a bunch of startups and consulting along the way. My career has spanned over 30 years and there's no doubt in my mind that it was the time at Microsoft that gave me experience, skills and opportunities I would never have had elsewhere.

If your heart is set on the romance of startups, go find it. You'll learn a lot there too. Just don't do it because you're bored of work.

PM me if you want an extended version of this with Google insider specifics.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#54

Re: starting your own company Is there a problem which you see that no one is addressing? Please put aside software problems when considering this, since a start-up solving those sorts of problems is most likely to be acquired by a place like Google in 4-5 years, putting you in the same situation as you are now (perhaps with more money than if you stayed). Have you worked at a small company? Are you excited to learn…

If your answer is "I don't know but I do know that I don't like it here", then definitely give notice and line up somewhere nice to go and have a think for 6 months or so.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#55

> My mentor suggested to stay at Google until I find an interesting startup idea to work on. IMO the odds of this happening is very slim compared to you going out on your own. When you travel around you get to experience a lot of problems first hand and then solutions to those problems come naturally to you.

This is simply not true. In fact, working at Google will expose you to all kinds of interesting ideas and problems. Many of those problems will just sit there because Google can't prioritize them right now.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#56
Go travel in SE Asia for 6 months. If that's what you want to do, then you should go do it. The problem with travel is either having the money but not enough time, or having the time but not enough money. You have both so you should seize the opportunity.

When you return, either you'll have an idea for a startup or you'll look for a new job. It is easy to explain a six month gap with travelling, especially with the stories to back it up.

Maybe see if you can take a sabbatical or leave of absence like others in the thread are suggesting. I'm hoping that your mentor is neither your manager nor on your team since otherwise you've already played your hand.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#57
Any moderately successful startup/project idea I've had (I've had a few) came from frustrations/experiences at existing jobs or freelance projects. Same goes for other startups I've worked at (I've been at a few).

So unless you've already got a few things in mind from working at google or dealing with your side projects/passions, I wouldn't leave. You're probably _less likely_ to find a good idea by traveling and being in SE Asia. You're simply less exposed to the kind of problems that breed good startups and too far away from (potential) customers.

I don't know google's specific policy regarding side projects, but if you're in California you do have some rights (so long as you use your own time/computer and aren't competing).

My advice would be to (a) stay at Google, (b) start brainstorming ideas based on your current experience/passions/frustrations, (c) consider finding a co-founder, (d) build an mvp and find 1 customer, (e) quit and work from Asian once you get closer to product-market fit.

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#59
Fear of regrets is not a good justification for avoiding a change, especially when you are young and healthy. That said, it seems you fo not have a well understood goal and just want to run from Google. If so, I'd flesh out where you want to go next and the way to get there before you make the jump.

Once you do I think you will feel a lot less worried -- your cash cushion is pretty hefty to allow for quite a bit of risk

Re: Ask HN: Why shouldn't I leave Google?

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no grace period as far as I know. That'd be stupid on their part: every keyboard jockey would immediately threaten to leave in hopes of getting a counter. Why not, if there's a "grace period"?Once you leave, there's no guarantee whatsoever that they'll want you back, even if you were doing well before you left. And that's by design.

When I left Google I was told I could come back within a year and not have to go through the full interview process. Just a few rounds of calls with recruiters a hiring manager. They apparently do this for anyone who goes out with high performance ratings on their last perf (Exceeds Expectations or greater). Not a grace period per se, but pretty nice.

Yes you could, but there's no guarantee whatsoever they actually will let you come back. It's a subtle point which many people don't understand. The first part, them deciding to let you come back, is not deterministic. The second (no interview if you didn't suck before you left) is. I know several xooglers who went back (in one case 3 years after leaving, no interviews). I also know several who got their applications chucked into /dev/null, in spite of being kickass engineers and good people in all other regards.
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