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ElectronConf postponed until a “more diverse slate of speakers” can be delivered

electronconf.com

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Re: ElectronConf postponed until a “more diverse slate of speakers” can be delivered

#161

Post by julianmarq »

selllikesybok wrote: post #125
muninn_ wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that you can't have a preference. The problem is that, if you prefer a monoculture than you're labeled a racist. So if you say: "I prefer a mix of cultures at xyz conference" that is ok because the mix is seen as good. But if you say: "I prefer only Han Chinese at this conference" you're a racist (actually I don't think you'd be labeled a racist, I think you would only be labeled a racist if you said w…

Maybe if people stopped flipping out a out having to think about injustice and their relative complicity in institutional inequality... Like, freaking out about having to think about it. About not being able to sail through life without ever having to.

> relative complicity

No, this stuff doesn't belong in HN, I don't accept it; this isn't tumblr.

Nobody is complicit of anything just for existing. At risk of invoking Godwin's law, that's exactly what the nazis said about every jew, including children.

> About not being able to sail through life without ever having to.

Yeah, let's not pretend you aren't a person who's had so much privilege that the biggest thing you think to fight about online is the diversity quota about some conference in an emerging (bad, but that's IMO) technology.

Re: ElectronConf postponed until a “more diverse slate of speakers” can be delivered

#162

Post by viraptor »

julianmarq wrote: post #150
viraptor wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No review process is more fair. But if you end up with all-X selections from a blind-review, you may be advertising to a very homogeneous culture. As a result, you may be limiting your pool of ideas to choose from and reaching only a local maximum. There are usually great non-X engineers, as long as you reach out to them. (they're usually have their own group - guess why?) Mixing multiple varied-X groups usually resu…

> (they're usually have their own group - guess why?) Self-segregation, so in-vogue nowadays. That, by the way, is also not the way to do things. > No review process is more fair. But if you end up with all-X selections from a blind-review, you may be advertising to a very homogeneous culture. As a result, you may be limiting your pool of ideas to choose from and reaching only a local maximum. There are usually great…

> if you were told that the organizers did reach out as many different groups as possible?

If we were discussing what-ifs, then I'd say - tough, maybe next year they'll have more success. But that's not the situation we're discussing. An organiser responded with "we can do better, we're postponing", so I don't have really a comment to that.

Re: ElectronConf postponed until a “more diverse slate of speakers” can be delivered

#163

Post by an27 »

Baeocystin wrote: post #110
TeMPOraL wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second the line of thinking, but please rein in the TSA a bit. That's literally the only thing I'm scared about going to US. All the other things seem like a purely local phenomena that shouldn't be generalized to the whole 300M country. But I am scared I'll get into trouble on the border because of my HN and Facebook posts (e.g. against US drone strikes).

Yeah, there's no way I'm going to defend the TSA's methodologies. They a pain to deal with. The good thing I'll say is that somewhere around 57 million people visited the US last year. 99.9%+ had no trouble other than long lines and the general frustration that comes with long distance travel. So your fears, while completely understandable, are also very, very unlikely to cause any actual trouble.

That doesn't really do it for me. Isn't the level of government mistrust and "dissent in speach" you regularly encounter on HN, extremely high on HN compared to the average US visitor?

Like, at levels only seen in 1 out of every 100,000 visitors, making it quite likely you'll be one of the 0.1-% percent if you hold these extreme viewpoints?

Re: ElectronConf postponed until a “more diverse slate of speakers” can be delivered

#164

Post by protomyth »

viraptor wrote: post #69

I'm disappointed in how many comments here are just kneejerk reactions. Reaching for weird comparisons, getting angry at the idea of diversity and social justice, and many others. This wasn't enforced from outside. It's the organisers who agreed: yup, that's not what we want to do ( https://twitter.com/nmsanchez/status/870811022306574336 ) Stop for a moment, think of how you'd organise a conference. Is it different?…

I'm mad because this is a commitment to optical diversity and does nothing for actual diversity in our industry. It is approaching the problem from the exact opposite direction. Instead of giving a diverse audience the best possible information using a blind selection system, the organizers are now going to select based on something that is not part of the lecture.

If the organizers actually cared about diversity beyond being optically correct to their peers, they would plan scholarships, flights, and lodging for a diverse population that cannot normally attend and event like this. Changing the speakers is the least effort, least effective method of adding diversity to our industry. They picked lazy and cheap over effective.

Frankly, the thought that a minority population can learn more for like minorities versus the original presenters is insulting and promotes a stereotype that closes more doors.

"white sausage party" - the thought you are advocating for diversity yet feel it ok to insult anyone's race / creed is troubling. People who insult others or make them uncomfortable with their slurs and jabs are the basis of the problem.

Re: ElectronConf postponed until a “more diverse slate of speakers” can be delivered

#165

Post by selllikesybok »

julianmarq wrote: post #156
selllikesybok wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common reaction, and it started from a misunderstanding of the terms. I recommend reading https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism And then https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexism Of course, it's a complex topic, and there's a lot more great material which would help you get a better understanding. While particularly focused on a specific type of racism in the US, includes a decent 101 on…

If you were going for discrediting calling something "a white-sausage party" as if it were a bad thing isn't racist by linking that, you failed. The very first definition in your own link on racism: > : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race Inherent inferiority , I'd assume, fits within that mind fr…

I'm not sure how saying that a non diverse group is inferior to a diverse group is equivalent to saying that the specific elements making up the non diverse group is inferior?

Like, saying all-white is inferior to mixed is not the same as saying white is inferior.

Also, do recall usages b and c, and that they are important to consider, and specifically see my third link for better explanation of how.

Re: ElectronConf postponed until a “more diverse slate of speakers” can be delivered

#166

Post by bsg75 »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #101
viraptor wrote: post #69

I'm disappointed in how many comments here are just kneejerk reactions. Reaching for weird comparisons, getting angry at the idea of diversity and social justice, and many others. This wasn't enforced from outside. It's the organisers who agreed: yup, that's not what we want to do ( https://twitter.com/nmsanchez/status/870811022306574336 ) Stop for a moment, think of how you'd organise a conference. Is it different?…

> Edit: Yes, there are better and worse ways to go about it. Realising too late and reverting the original list was not the best. Reaching out to / inviting diverse groups rather than fixing balance later would be better. Hope they learned and will do it better next year. Organisers which care about it from the beginning somehow manage to get a decent m/f split - both in the audience and in the speakers. (see linux.c…

Many commenters here, and apparently the conference organizers, appear to misunderstand that blind review and random sampling are not the same thing.

Re: ElectronConf postponed until a “more diverse slate of speakers” can be delivered

#167

Post by DerpyBaby123 »

cygx wrote: post #144
Cozumel wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning code should be the only way to make programming 'more accessible'. Black, white, yellow, red, gay, straight, whatever. None of that should matter. All that matters is that you can pull your weight.

The gender gap in the open source world is notoriously bad (worse than in the idustry as a whole), and this goes beyond women not being able to pull their weight. There are fun statistics such as that women who are not immediately recognizable as such have a higher pull request acceptance rate on github than their male counterparts, whereas women who are easily identifiable have a lower one.

Source? I heard of one study like this but it was refuted for bad procedures

Re: ElectronConf postponed until a “more diverse slate of speakers” can be delivered

#169

Post by naasking »

robspychala wrote: post #59
tjpnz wrote: post #18

This may be an unpopular opinion but I still don't understand why diversity even matters here - shouldn't it be the merit of the ideas and the presentation skills of the speakers?

on face value you can't argue with your logic but if you want to play the long game and help create and contribute to an industry that includes people from all demographics than this is a very smart move. and more people included in your sample, more chance of finding amazing A++ engineers that can help the industry, your dev platform, etc...

> help create and contribute to an industry that includes people from all demographics than this is a very smart move

I doubt it. Now people are just going to think it's a waste of time trying to submit to this conference, and so lower quality material will be presented, and those in attendance aren't going to be as impressed and may not return. It's frankly a great way to to ensure you only ever hold one conference.

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