Earlier quoted context omitted.
> why can't people organize themselves if they want to? That's fine, don't force people to organize and pay "dues".
If you don't like it then vote with your feet.
I vote with my votes and I vote to kill unions.
Workers involved in union activities say Tesla is illegally intimidating them
51–60 of 79 posts
Re: Workers involved in union activities say Tesla is illegally intimidating them
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm pretty ambivalent about this. In some sectors you hear the story "he got paid $40 an hour to change light bulbs" but in other sectors (teachers?) workers are still chronically underpaid and mistreated. In short: you can't make black and white generalizations about these things. In some cases a union still makes sense, in others they've become dead weight or obsolete.
The teachers unions keeps terrible teachers employed. In California some school districts have pulled teachers from classrooms because they are unfit to teach, but they can't fire them because of union rules. They are literally paid to do nothing [1]. Many of the teachers I've talked to hate the union, but it's a very strong union and not much can be done about it. [1] http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/06/local/me…
"About 160 teachers and other staff sit idly in buildings scattered around the sprawling district, waiting for allegations of misconduct to be resolved."
So, an "allegation of misconduct" is "unfit to teach"?
Re: Workers involved in union activities say Tesla is illegally intimidating them
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Public unions and private unions are entirely different beasts IMO. I don't like the idea of public unions because they can essentially bleed taxpayers dry. See California or Illinois unfounded liabilities for the result of that. Not to mention the atrocity that is police unions.
unfunded (sp) liabilities. And be careful where you wave your wand. Illinois pensions are very underfunded while California pensions are not even close to as bad, we just have a much larger denominator. Also, the rate of funding in California is set by the employer (the city / county, etc) and not the state, the union, or the unionized employee. The pension organizations (CalPERS and CalSTERS) have unreasonable rates…
Of course private sector unions can bleed companies dry. The difference is that I am not involuntarily invested in said companies that are being bled dry. That is, I suppose, unless the government jumps in to bail them out.
Re: Workers involved in union activities say Tesla is illegally intimidating them
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
The teachers unions keeps terrible teachers employed. In California some school districts have pulled teachers from classrooms because they are unfit to teach, but they can't fire them because of union rules. They are literally paid to do nothing [1]. Many of the teachers I've talked to hate the union, but it's a very strong union and not much can be done about it. [1] http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/06/local/me…
" About 160 teachers and other staff sit idly in buildings scattered around the sprawling district, waiting for allegations of misconduct to be resolved. " So, an "allegation of misconduct" is "unfit to teach"?
In some cases, these teachers have openly abused students, but it is very hard to prove such cases even though there is proof (some level of irony applies here).
Here in Maine, we either don't have a teachers union, or it is not a problematic cancer like it is in California and New York, and we still have problems firing toxic teachers that have actively harmed students.
Re: Workers involved in union activities say Tesla is illegally intimidating them
#55> Tesla CEO Elon Musk ... promised to install both a roller coaster and free frozen yogurt machines throughout the facility. I had to double-check that I was not reading a satirical website after reading the above statement.
""There will also be little things that come along like free frozen yogurt stands scattered around the factory and my personal favorite: a Tesla electric pod car roller coaster (with an optional loop the loop route, of course!) that will allow fast and fun travel throughout our Fremont campus, dipping in and out of the factory and connecting all the parking lots," Musk wrote. "It’s going to get crazy good.""
I sometimes wonder what happened to functioning adults.
Re: Workers involved in union activities say Tesla is illegally intimidating them
#56I think a union is something you earn - not something foisted upon you. If you dont want workers to join a union, treat them well, pay them significantly above market rates, give good benefits.
the major appeal of the union is that you can't get fired or laid off. This type of job security is crucial because it gives you massive leverage when it comes to fighting for those other things. No matter how good the pay is, you can probably get better via striking, etc.
No one choose a job based on the union. How many unions in the private market can really claim you wont get fired.
Re: Workers involved in union activities say Tesla is illegally intimidating them
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could say the same about many other public institutions. To demonstrate: The media seems more interested in sensationalist irrelevant news than informing the public (it pays better). Until the media can once again demonstrate openly and conclusively that their primary concern is informing the public rather than just being another power player jockeying to get their share of the pie, scrapping them would be a very…
> Until the media can once again demonstrate openly and conclusively that their primary concern is informing the public rather than just being another power player jockeying to get their share of the pie, scrapping them would be a very good idea. I... I agree with that statement...
You might need to clarify if you actually mean scrapping them by law, or just as a general personal scrapping. Some people seem to assume by law.
Re: Workers involved in union activities say Tesla is illegally intimidating them
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
" About 160 teachers and other staff sit idly in buildings scattered around the sprawling district, waiting for allegations of misconduct to be resolved. " So, an "allegation of misconduct" is "unfit to teach"?
In some cases, these teachers have openly abused students, but it is very hard to prove such cases even though there is proof (some level of irony applies here). Here in Maine, we either don't have a teachers union, or it is not a problematic cancer like it is in California and New York, and we still have problems firing toxic teachers that have actively harmed students.
That whole 'due process' thing sucks.
Re: Workers involved in union activities say Tesla is illegally intimidating them
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
> why can't people organize themselves if they want to? That's fine, don't force people to organize and pay "dues".
At some point the majority of workers voted to organize. After that, anyone working there has made the choice to work a unionized job. I don't think it is fair to allow a single jobseeker to break the structure of a union this way. Why not consider asking these individuals to choose to work a different job if they object to paying union dues? In general, there's an information asymmetry between workers and employers…
If the employer agrees that everyone should join a union, sure. Public sector unions are an entirely different beast though.
Re: Workers involved in union activities say Tesla is illegally intimidating them
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand why collective bargain is expected on the employer side and reviled on the employee side. If employers can band together to form a company and present a unified front to the people they pay, why can't the people they pay band together to form a union and also present a unified front? Why do we trash the very concept of unions because bad ones want to tax robots and such, but don't apply the same st…
>> If employers can band together to form a company and present a unified front to the people they pay... How does this statement even make any sense? IANAL, but I'm interpretting this as deliberately conflating the term employers with people within a company whose duties include making hiring decisions--themselves employees .
Union : worker :: company : _______.
What would you like to put in the blank? I'm using the term "employer" there but I'm happy to switch to something better.