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An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

scientificamerican.com

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Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#151

Post by sjg007 »

barrkel wrote: post #105
SeeDave wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of teachers being outright hostile to students is far too many, in my opinion. How does this behavior positively impact the lives of their students? Do they not understand the psychological damage they can be inflicting? Do they simply not care?

Adolescence is an exercise in accumulating scar tissue. What you call damage, I can argue is growing up. You need a thicker hide and a more independent source of self worth; reliable continual external validation inhibits, imo. Teachers are just other people too. The sooner teenagers recognise it fully, the better placed they'll be to choose their own way rather than have it chosen for them.

They don't recognize it.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#152

Post by sjg007 »

watwut wrote: post #69
pirocks wrote: post #18

As a high school student I find the hating on the SAT/ACT a little concerning, since once you remove standardized testing, admissions is primarily based on GPA(which imo has massive flaws the most important flaw being lack of consistency across schools). Also this article doesn't sound all that "scientific" to me.

In addition, admissions based on GPA means that students are motivated to choose easy classes and lenient teachers whenever they have choice. IMO, system should not punish students for choosing out hard classes - if anything it should reward that.

Nope. Some classes are weighted higher to prevent this.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#153

Post by sjg007 »

pirocks wrote: post #18

As a high school student I find the hating on the SAT/ACT a little concerning, since once you remove standardized testing, admissions is primarily based on GPA(which imo has massive flaws the most important flaw being lack of consistency across schools). Also this article doesn't sound all that "scientific" to me.

It's a game.. basically you have to prep for the test.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#154

Post by protomyth »

criddell wrote: post #147
yorwba wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing wrong with that, but why should trying out a bunch of stuff make someone more eligible for a scholarship?

Why shouldn't it?

Doing a bunch of stuff in high school is a pretty big indicator that you are from an affluent school and/or an affluent background. The rest of us had after school jobs or chores. Never mind the parents that can arrange those unpaid internships. As to after school clubs, we didn't have any because we didn't have the money to pay teachers to stay around.

If a school actually care about the diversity of its students, then judging on these activities self selects a much narrower socioeconomic background.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#155

Post by protomyth »

sjg007 wrote: post #152
watwut wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition, admissions based on GPA means that students are motivated to choose easy classes and lenient teachers whenever they have choice. IMO, system should not punish students for choosing out hard classes - if anything it should reward that.

Nope. Some classes are weighted higher to prevent this.

I don't remember my high school report card having a difficulty rating on the class. I would be very interested in data on the number of high schools that do this weighting.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#156

Post by cperciva »

pzh wrote: post #141
cperciva wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be surprised. I was on the committee which adjudicated major entrance scholarships for six years, and I can count on my fingers the number of times someone said "can we get some verification of this?" We've never thought that fraud was a common problem, and when you're competing to recruit the top students you really don't want to go back to them and accuse them of dishonesty.. And (although we're revising…

I never really understood why admissions committees give any credit whatsoever to 'well-rounded' students. If somebody spent all their time volunteering in 10 different inconsequential clubs, playing 5 musical instruments, and participating in 3 different sports, I would consider them a 'tourist' or a dabbler, if you will, and wouldn't give them any credit. Now if they happened to win a championship, get a gold medal…

You're pretty much preaching to the choir here; but the position I hear most often is that when we're selecting the students we want to have as part of the university community, we should pick students who will contribute something to said community (beyond "mere" academics).

In some cases, I see students' extracurricular activities as demonstrating an ability to dedicate themselves to a cause or pursuit; that sort of perseverance is important in higher education. But in most cases that sort of dedication goes along with extraordinary success of the sorts you mention. (My personal scholarship assessment rubric actually includes a specific value for "competed in the Olympics or equivalent level of international competition".)

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#157

Post by majormajor »

vonmoltke wrote: post #122
cbhl wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but if anyone is actually adjusting high school grades to account for these differences, they're not admitting it. I am pretty sure this was the standard line for campus tours at the University of Waterloo -- that you should take high school exams at your school and not at some diploma mill, because Waterloo did adjust your entrance average based on what high school you came from, and how those students did once th…

> that you should take high school exams at your school and not at some diploma mill I have never heard this term applied to a high school before. Is this a thing in Canada?

It's a thing in the US too, especially in high-end athletic circles with traveling teams, etc (the flip side of the argument is that elite athletic prospects can't fit traditional high school schedules into their routines easily).

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#158

Post by sjg007 »

protomyth wrote: post #155
sjg007 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Some classes are weighted higher to prevent this.

I don't remember my high school report card having a difficulty rating on the class. I would be very interested in data on the number of high schools that do this weighting.

AP classes graded at 5.0

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#159

Post by protomyth »

sjg007 wrote: post #158
protomyth wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember my high school report card having a difficulty rating on the class. I would be very interested in data on the number of high schools that do this weighting.

AP classes graded at 5.0

Ok, we didn't have (and they still don't) have AP classes at my old high school. How many school districts have AP classes that go to 5.0?

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#160

Post by jdietrich »

SeeDave wrote: post #83
oblio wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been brought up in a positive environment, yet full of sarcasm, I'm not sure I buy this argument. Yes, there must be a balance. But sarcasm and negativity are part of our everyday life as adults and we should learn how to handle them.

The best way to handle sarcasm and negativity is, in my opinion, to reduce contact and/or interaction. To not reward such behavior and instead choose to associate with positive people. The problem is that school-kids are forced into repeated, unsupervised interactions where they are often deliberately and persistently targeted by aggressors. Out of curiosity, what purpose does sarcasm serve you? What do you get out o…

>Out of curiosity, what purpose does sarcasm serve you?

"Ha ha, only serious". Gentle mockery can be a non-threatening way of expressing grievances and telling people difficult truths. A joke can be a very useful way of letting someone know that they're annoying us, that their work isn't up to par or that their haircut is unflattering. It's why the British excel at it - we're not very good at blunt truths, so we tend to make a joke of things.

A classic example might be the British way of greeting someone who is late - a gently sarcastic "nice of you to join us". It gets the message across without being a direct admonishment. Most of us would be unwilling to directly criticise a colleague for slacking, but we'd find it far easier to sarcastically remark "you must be rushed off your feet".

Nobody wants to be surrounded by relentlessly negative people, but uncritical cheerleaders can be just as harmful. Sometimes we need to be told things that we don't want to hear, lest we turn into vainglorious prima donnas, drifting through life with a total obliviousness to our obvious shortcomings. Sarcasm, irony and gentle mockery can make that bitter pill a little easier to swallow.

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