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4D Toys: a box of four-dimensional toys

marctenbosch.com

81–90 of 148 posts

Re: 4D Toys: a box of four-dimensional toys

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a big problem with that, which is that we don’t actually see in 3 dimensions. Our eyes only get 2-dimensional projections of a 3-dimensional world.

I am not sure you are correct. We have 2 eyes so that our brain can work out the depth of the image.

We see in 2D, with a tiny bit of depth metadata. True 3D vision would allow you to look at someone, and see the entire volume of all their internal organs simultaneously.

Re: 4D Toys: a box of four-dimensional toys

#83

I'm curious how this would look if the 4D space was projected onto the 3D space instead of taking a cross-section, much like we already project 3D space onto 2D space (your display), to create "3d" graphics.

There are existing projects for this, for example [1].

I haven't tried OP demo yet (but I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about 4D and VR and implemented my own viewers), and I'm very convinced that the cross section approach is much much better if you want to deeply understand what is happening.

The perspective projection folds the fourth dimension into our hyperplane and you can't untangle it.

To paste something I wrote here [2], regarding the difficulty of groking the tesseract from the projected figure, I think it’s almost impossible to realize that there are points inside the tesseract that are not inside any of the eight cubes visible in the [projected] image, or that if you trace a diagonal between the corners of the tesseract you do not pass through any of the eight cubes.

There is much more space inside the hypercube than meets the eye in the perspective projection.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFmDLUUhZjE [2]: http://xn--1-2fa.fr/blog/down-the-4d-rabbit-hole-navigation/

Re: 4D Toys: a box of four-dimensional toys

#84
post #23

If you make a Kickstarter to 4D print them, I would support it for my kids. I think for kids, it's more important to play with real-world physical objects rather than their virtual computer representation.

George Hart made STL files for 3d projections of a number of 4d objects[0]. Some 3d printers include them as example prints One place I know even used Hart's 3d projection of 120 cell as a standard test print. It has a bunch of thin complicated features that machines have trouble with. One could tell immediately if something was wrong with the machine if the thin pieces were deformed or came out too brittle that normal handling broke them.

[0]http://www.georgehart.com/rp/rp.html [1]http://www.georgehart.com/rp/120-cell-george-hart.stl

Re: 4D Toys: a box of four-dimensional toys

#85
post #15

This looks fantastic. If I had a VR device I would get this immediately. I've always had a fascination with trying to grok higher dimensions. I think it's just about impossible to have an intuitive understanding of it - 3D spacial reasoning is in our wiring through both nature and experience. You know the theory of how language shapes your thinking? For example, in societies where there is no separate word for orange…

Often when I see something about 4d it uses this same analogy: a 2d being seeing a crosssection of a 3d world, in 2d. However, the video is in 2d, and it's able to show 3d in a much better/more clear way, clearly, cause when it's showing that example it's got a cutout of the "3d" view (which is still 2d!). Why can't we do the same thing with 4d? Why does the object just disappear when it bounces into the 4th dimensio…

I remember playing a flash or java game years ago that did exactly this. It was a 4d maze, rendered in stereoscopic 3d. It displayed the images side by side and you crossed your eyes to get the 3d effect.

It was really disorienting (the 4d, but also the eye-crossing), and like the post author says, just bundles of lines rather than solid shapes. Still very cool.

Ooh, I found it!

http://www.urticator.net/maze/

Re: 4D Toys: a box of four-dimensional toys

#88
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hitting the same problem -- the app only renders to a smaller rectangle of the whole screen rooted at the bottom-left (when held sideways), but touch events are scaled to the whole screen. I could probably live with the smaller view, but it's very hard to accurately manipulate the objects when it thinks I'm touching further left than I actually am.

Same issue here. Has anyone reached out to the developer?

I am aware of the issue and fixing right now!

Re: 4D Toys: a box of four-dimensional toys

#89
post #15

This looks fantastic. If I had a VR device I would get this immediately. I've always had a fascination with trying to grok higher dimensions. I think it's just about impossible to have an intuitive understanding of it - 3D spacial reasoning is in our wiring through both nature and experience. You know the theory of how language shapes your thinking? For example, in societies where there is no separate word for orange…

That's a really cool point about language and how it influences our perception! Do you have a source for the orange vs. red thing? I'd love to read more about that.
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