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An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

scientificamerican.com

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Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#31

Post by neogodless »

nostrademons wrote: post #26

There's an assumption in this article that virtue - using your intelligence to benefit humanity rather than self or tribe - is a character trait, either one that's inborn but should be selected for or one that can be imbued by education and then is relatively unchanging. There's pretty ample evidence [1][2][3][4] that this assumption is false, and that people are highly situational in their moral reasoning. In partic…

The article/interview claims that we can cultivate and test for virtue (creativity and wisdom), and that our current tests used to funnel intelligence into higher education and intelligence work isn't currently accounting for it. I'm not sure where in the article the claim is made that it cannot be improved upon.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#33

Post by oculusthrift »

sidek wrote: post #22
MichaelBurge wrote: post #4

TLDR: The Republicans won the election, so the education system is flawed. The professor advocates different admissions tests, presumably selecting for people who can be convinced to vote Democrat and buy into Democrat save-the-world rhetoric. > If you look at the problems we have in the world today—climate change, income disparities in this country that probably rival or exceed those of the gilded age, pollution, vi…

In fact, current elite US college admissions seem to select for people who vote Democrat well enough. It would be hard to increase that percentage very much. Just look at the political affiliation reported by e.g. Harvard students. If anything, I would think that an institution which tested for wisdom might shift conservative a percentage point or two.[ Not because I think conservatives are necessarily more moral in…

liberals and academics have tended to pretend values or virtue don't really exist while following the principles themselves. they tend to heavily participate in their communities, get married, and have kids later and don't commit much crime. However, they absolutely refuse to acknowledge that these behaviors are virtues or that anyone else should behave that way. the only way they really enforce their concept of virtue is forcing people to accept certain things about sex and gender.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#34

Post by oculusthrift »

watwut wrote: post #32
svend wrote: post #3

I stopped reading at "IQ rose 30 points in the 20th century around the world.."

Kids eat better and we focus way more on both their early development and schooling then before. Why would be better results so surprising?

yes it seems mostly to be from the nutrition aspect as IQ is supposedly supposed to be immutable otherwise

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#35

Post by aaronbrethorst »

jbscpa wrote: post #15

My spouse is a classroom educator. Her school participates in Great Expectations program. http://www.greatexpectations.org/ It is a character development program "that provides teachers and administrators with the skills needed to create harmony and excitement within the school atmosphere" There are 8 Expectations at the elementary level 1. We will value one another as unique special individuals 2. We will not laugh…

I'd love to understand what you base that last sentence on.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#36

Post by mmirate »

accountyaccount wrote: post #14
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education as job training rather than education for intrinsic value.

Makes sense considering the U.S. is a society where you have no value unless you work. The presiding political party doesn't think you should have food and housing unless you have a job.

> you have no value unless you work

This subjunctive clause, stands alone as a true statement. How else does one earn money?

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#37

Post by nostrademons »

neogodless wrote: post #31
nostrademons wrote: post #26

There's an assumption in this article that virtue - using your intelligence to benefit humanity rather than self or tribe - is a character trait, either one that's inborn but should be selected for or one that can be imbued by education and then is relatively unchanging. There's pretty ample evidence [1][2][3][4] that this assumption is false, and that people are highly situational in their moral reasoning. In partic…

The article/interview claims that we can cultivate and test for virtue (creativity and wisdom), and that our current tests used to funnel intelligence into higher education and intelligence work isn't currently accounting for it. I'm not sure where in the article the claim is made that it cannot be improved upon.

"Improved upon" assumes something that is constant on the level of long-term worldview, not something that may change situationally. You wouldn't usually say that your choice of what to have for dinner or which sweater to buy can be "improved upon", but many of the individual choices we make that lead to the world we currently live in are on that level.

I guess the article does mention engaging the ethical reasoning centers of our brain and training them to realize that it's an ethical problem at all, but my argument here is that there's a reason most citizens in developed countries don't think about the moral implications of, say, buying an iPhone made in a sweatshop in China that uses rare-earth minerals that pollute the environment, and that's because the number of choices we face on a daily basis and the moral complexity of all the consequences of these would paralyze us into inaction if we did - in which case, those people who don't bother to think about it would dominate consumption.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#38

Post by jrochkind1 »

> What I argue is that intelligence that’s not modulated and moderated by creativity, common sense and wisdom is not such a positive thing to have

I think he left out the most important category -- empathy/compassion/caring/"emotional intelligence".

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#39

Post by jrochkind1 »

nostrademons wrote: post #37
neogodless wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article/interview claims that we can cultivate and test for virtue (creativity and wisdom), and that our current tests used to funnel intelligence into higher education and intelligence work isn't currently accounting for it. I'm not sure where in the article the claim is made that it cannot be improved upon.

"Improved upon" assumes something that is constant on the level of long-term worldview, not something that may change situationally. You wouldn't usually say that your choice of what to have for dinner or which sweater to buy can be "improved upon", but many of the individual choices we make that lead to the world we currently live in are on that level. I guess the article does mention engaging the ethical reasoning…

It changes situationally, but not everyone acts identically in the same situation, so it must vary personally too, no?

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#40

Post by tptacek »

oculusthrift wrote: post #34
watwut wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids eat better and we focus way more on both their early development and schooling then before. Why would be better results so surprising?

yes it seems mostly to be from the nutrition aspect as IQ is supposedly supposed to be immutable otherwise

That's not true. It is definitely not settled that IQ is believed by scientists to be immutable, and, in fact, a widely held hypothesis for the increase (shared by Flynn himself) is that the cognitive environment has become increasing complex, which is having the effect of "training" higher IQ.
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