The Slow Criminalization of Peer-To-Peer Transfers
news.bitcoin.com
The Slow Criminalization of Peer-To-Peer Transfers
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Re: The Slow Criminalization of Peer-To-Peer Transfers
#2The value of bitcoin was always to evade taxes and launder money, both of which are criminal enterprises, the only thing that is changing is enforcement.
Re: The Slow Criminalization of Peer-To-Peer Transfers
#3The value of bitcoin was always to evade taxes and launder money, both of which are criminal enterprises, the only thing that is changing is enforcement.
Don't forget rampant speculation and tulip mania. The author of the article speaks disparagingly of a "money grab" by the government, as if money grabbing wasn't what most bitcoin traders are after.
Re: The Slow Criminalization of Peer-To-Peer Transfers
#4The value of bitcoin was always to evade taxes and launder money, both of which are criminal enterprises, the only thing that is changing is enforcement.
Perhaps the value is the fact a central bank can't obliterate the value of the currency based on a whim, using a bunch of esoteric economic logic to justify such policies?
Re: The Slow Criminalization of Peer-To-Peer Transfers
#5The value of bitcoin was always to evade taxes and launder money, both of which are criminal enterprises, the only thing that is changing is enforcement.
Perhaps the value is the fact a central bank can't obliterate the value of the currency based on a whim, using a bunch of esoteric economic logic to justify such policies?
see "taxes"
Re: The Slow Criminalization of Peer-To-Peer Transfers
#6The value of bitcoin was always to evade taxes and launder money, both of which are criminal enterprises, the only thing that is changing is enforcement.
I agree with this to some extent.
As much as I consider myself a 'small l' libertarian, is a society in which taxes could be evaded so freely on such a large scale really desirable? We already struggle with this problem enough with 'traditional' financial tools. It's certainly worth thinking about.
Re: The Slow Criminalization of Peer-To-Peer Transfers
#7The value of bitcoin was always to evade taxes and launder money, both of which are criminal enterprises, the only thing that is changing is enforcement.
I agree with this to some extent. As much as I consider myself a 'small l' libertarian, is a society in which taxes could be evaded so freely on such a large scale really desirable? We already struggle with this problem enough with 'traditional' financial tools. It's certainly worth thinking about.
I don't fully understand the article... How is this different from the days when everyone just used cash?
On a side note, I don't really understand how bitcoin is somehow this new anonymous wealth hiding scheme. I can lookup any given wallet that's participated in a transaction (everything is public), so what stops me from de-anonymizing people? Lets say in the future everyone pays with bitcoin online and I'm working for the feds screening packages for UPS. I just saw a few amazon shipments come through for somebody's home address, one with a specific computer, one with a box of pens, and one with a pair of shoes. Go back, look up the item prices and then cross reference with transactions that took place in that time period. Yea, you can use multiple wallets and addresses but at some point, there'll be enough public domain information to track you down, especially with current advances in ML.
Re: The Slow Criminalization of Peer-To-Peer Transfers
#8The value of bitcoin was always to evade taxes and launder money, both of which are criminal enterprises, the only thing that is changing is enforcement.
I don't agree with the idea that the value of bitcoin was always to evade taxes and launder money. Maybe that's a primary motive for many, but I don't think that constitutes the value of bitcoin in toto.
I have no skin in the bitcoin game--I've never possessed any bitcoin and don't feel any burning desire to in the near future.
As monetary transactions have moved to the electronic sphere, there's been an important shift from how value is verified. With paper currency, the physical form of the coin or bill acts as verification of its value (thus the focus on counterfeiting, etc.). The trust in the value comes from the physical object possessing certain characteristics. Electronically, though, in the current system, everything is based on verification by trusted institutions. So there's no way of Alice paying Bob without it being verified by Ted, who then makes a lot of money and has lots of control over the financial system.
Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency tries to get back to the idea of peer-to-peer financial exchange without needing that third party, which I think is really valuable in society.
I agree with the concerns being raised in the article that there's a danger of criminalizing peer-to-peer financial transactions, because it basically starts granting new power to institutions that were previously held indirectly by the currency issuing bank.
Also, if everyone in my city wanted to start trading in tulips, why should the government criminalize the tulip trade (as opposed to criminalizing not reporting the value of the tulips you own)?
Re: The Slow Criminalization of Peer-To-Peer Transfers
#9The value of bitcoin was always to evade taxes and launder money, both of which are criminal enterprises, the only thing that is changing is enforcement.
While I am sure those reasons play a part I think thats not even close to all of what makes it valuable. Ease of use is a huge one. I can set up a wallet in less than a minute and someone from across the world can send me bitcoin in the time it takes for it to clear the block, other cryptos even faster.
One can post their wallet address and make jokes on social media and receive bitcoin just because people like the content and are happy to support it. (yes that works)
You can receive bitcoin without giving anyone your name,address,etc,same with sending it to someone and do so for legal purposes.
Try to do any of those 3 above with dollar bills and its just not even in the same realm. I see great value in that.
Re: The Slow Criminalization of Peer-To-Peer Transfers
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with this to some extent. As much as I consider myself a 'small l' libertarian, is a society in which taxes could be evaded so freely on such a large scale really desirable? We already struggle with this problem enough with 'traditional' financial tools. It's certainly worth thinking about.
I don't fully understand the article... How is this different from the days when everyone just used cash? On a side note, I don't really understand how bitcoin is somehow this new anonymous wealth hiding scheme. I can lookup any given wallet that's participated in a transaction (everything is public), so what stops me from de-anonymizing people? Lets say in the future everyone pays with bitcoin online and I'm working…
I would say much of the negativity is because certain very large institutions have a huge incentive to not want bitcoin to "succeed" and would paint it in a negative light any way they could.