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An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

scientificamerican.com

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Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#21
post #2

The ancient Western word for this is virtue : to cultivate virtues as part of an education. It's not a novel concept, but it rather got shot in the head in the postmodern revolution in education, and we're a lesser society for it.

Do you have links to old educational material where this sort of thing was part and parcel of the pedagogy? I am interested in getting into homeschooling, especially focusing on character development. I suppose an emphasis on the humanities would be a good first step, but I don't know where to find the "leading lights" in this kind of old-school education.

Not the OP, and it's a rather old book, relatively speaking, but you might also give Jean-Jacques Rousseau's Emile, or On Education a chance.

It's got nothing pedagogically scientific in it, at least compared to today's standards, but were I to have a kid I'd base my trying to teach him about things in life on what this book has taught me (it also talks about lots of other interesting things, not only pedagogy). Reading it I realized that my dad was at certain points following this book almost by the letter (I've never asked him if he had read it, though), and on the book's wikipedia page there's mention of the Montessori method being some sort of follow-up to what Rousseau was thinking in terms of educating children.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#22

TLDR: The Republicans won the election, so the education system is flawed. The professor advocates different admissions tests, presumably selecting for people who can be convinced to vote Democrat and buy into Democrat save-the-world rhetoric. > If you look at the problems we have in the world today—climate change, income disparities in this country that probably rival or exceed those of the gilded age, pollution, vi…

In fact, current elite US college admissions seem to select for people who vote Democrat well enough. It would be hard to increase that percentage very much. Just look at the political affiliation reported by e.g. Harvard students. If anything, I would think that an institution which tested for wisdom might shift conservative a percentage point or two.[ Not because I think conservatives are necessarily more moral in the US; but because I think more conservatives are religious and churches teach the language of virtue, which probably at least better tells you what the 'right' answer on wisdom tests is, whether you live that answer or not.]

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#23
I see many parallels with the post and my own experience. I got my PhD in math and taught many college math courses during that time. I was always saddened at the number of students that essentially viewed math as just an exercise in the memorization of algorithms (memorize differentiation and integration rules and chug away at problems). I would avoid teaching this way and instead give them fewer, "deeper" problems that "exercised the concepts".

Students (the "good" and "bad" ones would usually go through the same transition throughout the semester: they would first be very uncomfortable and generally dislike it, then after a few weeks they would start to get used to the process of thinking things through, and finally they would tend to like it much more than what they used to do (of course some students would absolutely despise the process even at the end). Some of the students that liked the process the most where the "bad" ones who were historically worse at the algorithmic style (and unsurprisingly some of the ones who were very good at that style took the longest to convince).

Personally I think it's very important to focus on such a style of teaching. If students apply Calculus at work, they'll usually be using some form of abstract reasoning (say finding a reasonable model for some phenomenon) or they will be applying numerical methods (or both), but rarely will specific memorized differentiation rules be necessary. Ironically I believe that the memorization of the steps is most useful to those going into theoretical mathematics where of course being able to do as many "basic" things without thinking will always help you focus on the "true problem".

The main issue with this approach is that it is hard for students to know if they understand something correctly (which I would argue may be the single most important intellectual skill to learn in life). They can't just look up an answer and see if they got it right, instead they basically have to ask themselves if their reasoning makes sense. The difficulty in this causes a huge amount of student angst and pushback making it more uncomfortable for the students and more work for the teachers. I think the main reason why we teach math as mainly rote learning is because it's the easiest way to teach. It's my job to go through the motions and your job to learn the algorithms as best you can. From the teaching perspective, this is relatively easy to teach, grade and defend.

As a final example, I think that the focus in Calculus on the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus is misplaced. It _is_ fundamental from a theoretical perspective, but essentially no numerical integration is done that way and instead the actual way that integrals are computed is some application of Riemann's methods. (The counterexample being languages like Mathematica which are specifically designed to solve things symbolically.) I found a very good exercise to write Riemann integrals in Python (which students could quickly understand as pseudocode) and use different methods (left-endpoint rule, midpoint rule, etc.) to compute the integral in different ways and verifying that the convergence matches errors predicted. I think this is the sort of reasoning that should be focused on much more rather than having students find anti-derivatives all day and simply repeating "remember plus C".

This is a bit of a long-winded and rambling post, but I do miss that aspect of teaching. Pushing students to realize their ability to reason about math was always very fulfilling. Not everyone enjoyed it, but the majority would come out realizing that they too can reason about math given enough patience and time.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#24
post #17

The article mixes two ideas that partially contradict each other. 1. Tests like the SAT, ACT, the GRE [...] You end up with people who are good at taking tests and fiddling with phones and computers, and those are good skills but they are not tantamount to the skills we need to make the world a better place. 2. Do we know how to cultivate wisdom? Yes we do. I agree with the second statement, and its implications are…

Why do you think American developers are non creative non social people? Both conference/hackatlon/meetup culture and startups who sell themselves to potential employees on cool cultures suggest that American developers are way more social then they like to admit. Non-social people tend to produce culture that is less fanatic to various socialization ways. Add to it companies that really follow agile processes extremely close teamwork and occasional pair programming and you get industry where shy or introverted person is at pretty high disadvantage.

I mean, so many here measure developer worth by participation on hackatlons and talks on meetup. Introverted or loner engineer is in serious disadvantage there.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#25
post #18

As a high school student I find the hating on the SAT/ACT a little concerning, since once you remove standardized testing, admissions is primarily based on GPA(which imo has massive flaws the most important flaw being lack of consistency across schools). Also this article doesn't sound all that "scientific" to me.

honestly it seems to me that many that bash them are just insecure they didn't do well and therefore claim that it isn't a valid measure.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#26
There's an assumption in this article that virtue - using your intelligence to benefit humanity rather than self or tribe - is a character trait, either one that's inborn but should be selected for or one that can be imbued by education and then is relatively unchanging. There's pretty ample evidence [1][2][3][4] that this assumption is false, and that people are highly situational in their moral reasoning.

In particular, expectations of abundance and reciprocity seem to factor particularly highly in peoples' moral calculus. Most people are quite willing to undertake pro-social, common-good actions when a.) they will not be personally hurt by it and b.) they have a reasonable expectation that the beneficiaries of their largess will turn around and either pay it back or pay it forward. When those conditions are not met, people have a tendency to act like locusts [5], and try and secure their personal resources before considering what that might do to sustainability or the larger world around them. Doing so is evolutionarily adaptive, as it ensures that they'll be the ones to survive and pass on their genes even if the rest of humanity dies.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

[5] https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2013/04/03/the-locust-economy/

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#27

I see many parallels with the post and my own experience. I got my PhD in math and taught many college math courses during that time. I was always saddened at the number of students that essentially viewed math as just an exercise in the memorization of algorithms (memorize differentiation and integration rules and chug away at problems). I would avoid teaching this way and instead give them fewer, "deeper" problems…

there is definitely two distinct intelligences. one that relies on knowledge and memorization and one in reason. Much of math is taught the knowledge way, similiar to history or biology, and a certain type of person excels at this. However, a different set excel at the reasoning approach. i don't think one approach can teach all people howeverZ

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#28
post #7
post #2

The ancient Western word for this is virtue : to cultivate virtues as part of an education. It's not a novel concept, but it rather got shot in the head in the postmodern revolution in education, and we're a lesser society for it.

I'm not familiar with the idea that there was a 'postmodern revolution' in education (or even what that would look like?) What changes are you referring to?

See "The Myth of the Postmodern University".[1]

What the above article is missing, however, is that "postmodernism" in English departments, Cultural Studies, Women's Studies, etc, has been long been boogymen among right-wingers like David Horowitz,[2] who don't like criticism or questioning of the oppressive social systems they benefit from and take the position that where such criticism is dominant, conservative and right-wing views are marginalized. That's really what's at the core of complaints against "postmodernism" in universities.

[1] - http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2008/10/the-myth-of-th...

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Horowitz

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#29
post #2

The ancient Western word for this is virtue : to cultivate virtues as part of an education. It's not a novel concept, but it rather got shot in the head in the postmodern revolution in education, and we're a lesser society for it.

For a short book-length explanation of this, see "The Abolition of Man" by C. S. Lewis.

Re: An alarm about the influence of standardized tests on American society

#30

I see many parallels with the post and my own experience. I got my PhD in math and taught many college math courses during that time. I was always saddened at the number of students that essentially viewed math as just an exercise in the memorization of algorithms (memorize differentiation and integration rules and chug away at problems). I would avoid teaching this way and instead give them fewer, "deeper" problems…

Awesome comment! I wish you were my math teacher back in the day. I was one of those "bad" ones and I've recently had to go back and (re)learn a lot so that I could get a better grasp of CS fundamentals and become a better software developer.
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