Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home • Hacker News Board

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#191

Post by Consultant32452 » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 6:16 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #173

potatoyogurt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In Medical Economics’ 2013 annual survey, 36% of family medicine/general practitioners and 35% of internists reported earning income from sources other than their primary practice/employer in 2012. That number was about the same for cardiologists (38%), but was higher for hospitalists (40%). Pediatricians and gastroenterologists were lower, at 25% and 27%, respectively. http://medicaleconomics.modernmedicine.com/med…

Unless I missed it, that report doesn't indicate the total hours worked, only rates at which doctors perform work outside their primary clinical job. There is also a massive difference between a doctor taking a side job because they enjoy it and a WalMart associate taking a delivery job because they have no choice.

Before this program was created they didn't have a choice. Now they do.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#192

Post by smileysteve » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 6:16 PM UTC

gregw134 wrote: post #52

leggomylibro wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. I think that this sort of attitude (which was my initial reaction too) is a big part of what's wrong with our current economy. If you take the concept at face value, this is Walmart offering to let their employees make some extra money in exchange for a bit of extra work, once they've clocked out. What a nice company. But realistically, this is Walmart shunting the costs of delivery onto their employees. Instead…

Walmart has less than 3% profit margin. It'd go bankrupt if it paid its employees $15/hour.

Another post indicates that they already pay hourly employees $13.85 average.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#193

Post by david927 » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 6:17 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #121

david927 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can create laws without an indication of previous abuse. We can regulate not just because we have indicators of abuse but because we can imagine potential abuse. We don't give toddlers handguns because our pre-frontal cortex allows us the foresight to see that it's a bad idea -- we don't need to actually wait and see if one toddler shoots another.

Sure, but that only makes sense if there's a reason to anticipate unusual problems. Like, if Walmart was offering employees extra money to dispose of toxic waste or collect debts from delinquent customers or something, I'd see a huge potential for abuse and wouldn't consider it to be at all a good idea. Those things need special training and the potential for problems is high. But this is package delivery. It's a rel…

Because this is "off-the-clock, off-site" work. It has the potential to be extended in a way that it much harder to quantify and regulate. My, and many others', biggest concern is that the workers at Wall-Mart often need their job for subsistence; it's often not a job that they feel they can say "no" to. So if this gets extended from "Do this only if you want to make some side money," to "Doing this greatly influences if you get to keep your job," there is a problem because it's no longer within their normal hourly wage limits and it's no longer in a set physical space.

Do they want to go a different direction than than directly home -- say to go to their daughter's birthday party? Again, if it's elective, there's no problem but if it becomes coerced then Wall-Mart is directly exploiting that need to keep that job.

In fact, I don't see how this is much of a win for the workers. I only see how Wall-Mart is leveraging its indentured workforce, including passing the risk on to them, to expand its profit base. This is late-stage capitalism, pure and simple.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#194

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 6:17 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #111

yourapostasy wrote: post #78

Questions I haven't seen answered yet: * Employee gets a destination with no parking available, who gets dinged for non-delivery? * Employee gets a destination with no parking available, but is told to double-park by local manager. Gets ticketed. Who gets dinged? * Does this constitute a non-CDL delivery service, or courier service? Will Wal-Mart handle licensing and insurance coverage of personal employee vehicles?…

Now, if only there was some sort of way to force Wal-mart to answer these kinds of questions. Maybe... A union of employees, who want to understand their relationship with their employer better, and to push back on unfair parts of said relationship.

[deleted]

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#195

Post by HeyLaughingBoy » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 6:17 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #173

potatoyogurt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In Medical Economics’ 2013 annual survey, 36% of family medicine/general practitioners and 35% of internists reported earning income from sources other than their primary practice/employer in 2012. That number was about the same for cardiologists (38%), but was higher for hospitalists (40%). Pediatricians and gastroenterologists were lower, at 25% and 27%, respectively. http://medicaleconomics.modernmedicine.com/med…

Unless I missed it, that report doesn't indicate the total hours worked, only rates at which doctors perform work outside their primary clinical job. There is also a massive difference between a doctor taking a side job because they enjoy it and a WalMart associate taking a delivery job because they have no choice.

There's also a massive difference between a doctor taking a side job because they have no choice and a Walmart associate taking a delivery job because they enjoy it.

Don't assume!

Everyone assumes doctors are these fabulously rich people when many of them don't make a whole lot of money when considered on an hours-worked basis.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#196

Post by r00fus » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 6:17 PM UTC

xienze wrote: post #141

r00fus wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think the average HN employee works shifts at Wal-mart? No, it's people here cheering other's exploitation (in the name of the mythical "freedom").

You're both assuming that this must necessarily be exploitative. It might actually be a good program for Walmart workers.

And your assumption that employee is even allowed a cost/benefit option is based on... ?

All of this hypothetical except for the fact that Wal-Mart is known for a) ruthless schedule management like keeping workers locked in warehouses b) a known price-cutter both on vendors and employees to the point their employees often qualify for state aid for under-employed / under-paid (i.e., welfare benefits).

Given that, it'd be surprising if an non-exploitative option will be available for the workers who will be doing these deliveries.

But of course, we'll see.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#197

Post by Houshalter » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 6:19 PM UTC

mtberatwork wrote: post #133

Houshalter wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's surprising. In the past walmart has supported increases in the minimum wage because they know it hurts their competitors more than it hurts them. They shove the cost of higher wages off to higher prices for consumers and keep the same profit. In any case within a few years these jobs will likely be automated, and walmart will stop hurting all those poor employees.

Walmart has acquiesced to increases in minimum wages only under protest from their workers and even then, the increases were pitiful. [1] [1] http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/03/walmart-can-afford-15-minimum...

Walmart raising it's own wages voluntarily is different than supporting a law that forces all companies to raise wages.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#198

Post by ianai » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 6:19 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #106

petra wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you don't work at Walmart. People there have more burning matters, like how to put food on the table. And you can block location requests(and the like) for the app, after work, Either with Android 6-7 or Lineage's privacy guard.

"And you can block location requests(and the like) for the app, after work, Either with Android 6-7 or Lineage's privacy guard." I see that you also do not work at walmart.

I'm sure technological side steps will result in termination one or another way.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#199

Post by SilasX » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 6:20 PM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #187

rbanffy wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone actually live on $40 a day?

At least 80% of humans live on $10 per day or less. http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-sta...

The parent meant in the area where Walmart etc are paying that wage.

Re: Wal-Mart will pay employees to deliver packages on their way home

#200

Post by Chaebixi » Fri, Jun 02, 2017, 6:21 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #154

Chaebixi wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article says the app finds possible deliveries that are on the employee's route home, so no extra out of the way driving is to be done... only a 30 second stop to get out and carry the package up to the front door. Seems very efficient to me. Dude, you're engaging in fantasy. Walmart is going to want to use this for more people than just those who live on busy commuter roads that happen to be used by a Walmart…

> is probably going to mean a detour below some limit that Walmart decides Did you miss the part where this is a voluntary program? If the employee doesn't like the route, they don't have to take it. > Dude, you're engaging in fantasy I suppose it's fantasy simply because you hate Walmart (I presume). If this was, say, Amazon... I wager most would take a different opinion. "Look at how ingenuitive Amazon is! They'll…

> Did you miss the part where this is a voluntary program? If the employee doesn't like the route, they don't have to take it.

There are all kinds of comments in other threads talking about how "voluntary" it may end up being in practice.

> I suppose it's fantasy simply because you hate Walmart (I presume)....

You presume quite a bit, and your presumptions border on fantasy.

> The facts, so far, state this is a 100% volunteer program...

> and the employee will be compensated for that delivery above their normal wage...

Correction: the company PR so far, this is all based on a Walmart blog post. Anyway, let's play quote the OP:

>>> Wal-Mart Stores Inc. is testing a program...

>>> Wal-Mart didn’t specify how the employees will be compensated.

You're right that it's all-volunteer now, but it's reasonable to question how much that will remain true in the future, especially since it's still being developed. It could even turn out to be de-jure voluntary but de-facto mandatory. Walmart could also shower money on its employees for this work, but history suggests otherwise.