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Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

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Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#51

Post by lawn »

gte910h wrote: post #47
lawn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't do a lot of web development and I hated php too a year or so ago. But it's actually not so bad if you just want some things done and for me I actually started to enjoy sporadic encounters with it. I switched from my own hacked soup to kohana and I found jquery and them alone made it much better. And I think you're missing context a little, I think javascript is a wonderful language and you can do a lot of "re…

I think javascript is fine when you don't actually have to support a dozen different browsers. But for most use cases, you have way to much cross platform support to worry about, and that's no fun. Php is fine when there is less than 100 lines of it or so in your project. It just gets unfun fast as the LOC goes up.

With jquery I haven't had any cross platform issues, I'm curios what you're doing that makes it all so broken?

And I think it's really fun to work in kohana especially when you're just jumping around in the core which is surprisingly well written with it's thousands of lines.

So I must ask, is it really the language that's the problem when the project gets unfun at the 100 line mark or is it your attitude or aptitude that's getting in the way? Hell, my .conkyrc file (a config for a small monitoring app) I've just written is more than 100 lines!

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#52

Post by metamemetics »

>For a web application, the code might make the entire thing operate, but it never affects the user the way the design or interface does.

Sounds like you're primarily talking about the backend PHP coding then? One option already mentioned is to learn a new way to develop backends that you find funner (ex. Python).

The other you should seriously consider is to team-up and form a partnership with someone who enjoys programming more. This way you focus primarily on User Interface which you seem more passionate about and have a friend whip out the backends. You will be able to tackle larger more exciting projects and your prior programming knowledge will make it easier for you integrate your design work with the developer's.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#53

Post by zb »

alexwyser wrote: post #17
Khao wrote: post #4

I am a programmer and I am very passionate about coding. I think it all comes from the fact that I loved mathematics and physics in school. I love solving problems, finding ways to reach your goal using your logic. On the other hand, I dislike designing because I am not good at creating something without a specific goal. I can't just think up ideas for design. However, when I am faced with a problem where I have a st…

I too like finding the logic behind how everything works and how to implement a certain feature. And I can think up innovative (and effective/efficient) solutions to problems, But I find it very boring to translate that into lines of code. For example, I can think up a way in which users will never have to register or login to individual websites, by storing all their information on their browsers, and I can find a m…

I think this might be where the disconnect is. If you think up solutions and translate them into code, then I can certainly imagine the translating part could be very boring. That's the 1960s model of software development (still going strong in some quarters, of course).

Programmers think up solutions in code. If you stick with it you'll probably eventually come to realise this.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#54

Post by rosejn »

If you don't know what's fun about coding, then you should just find something else to do that you do enjoy. Everyone I know who really enjoys hacking has been into it since day one, including myself. It's the general joy of wrapping your head around a problem, breaking it into bite size pieces, and then tackling them and getting psyched as you knock out working code. Initially basic logic constructs, iteration and recursion were enough to get psyched about, but later it is more about about the problems you are solving then the programming.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#55

Post by lmz »

tetha wrote: post #49

Hum, I can't tell why coding is fun. I can however tell why I have so much fun developing my current project. The project is a compiler to produce serialization and deserialization classes from a datatype description. I have a lot of fun, because of the following things at the moment: Sometimes, code approaches a level where the code itself is either clear beyond anything or where the code actually teaches you someth…

Your project sounds interesting. Do you get paid to write such things?

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#56

Post by tetha »

lmz wrote: post #55
tetha wrote: post #49

Hum, I can't tell why coding is fun. I can however tell why I have so much fun developing my current project. The project is a compiler to produce serialization and deserialization classes from a datatype description. I have a lot of fun, because of the following things at the moment: Sometimes, code approaches a level where the code itself is either clear beyond anything or where the code actually teaches you someth…

Your project sounds interesting. Do you get paid to write such things?

No, it is my master thesis and will eventually become some open source project

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#57

Post by pavelludiq »

I am a passionate programmer. I've never found coding itself to be fun, its more like a ritual for me. I've found that if what I'm building is good, eve though actually coding it is boring, i still feel fulfilled by it. If on the other hand I'm doing a shitty job, i feel bored, frustrated and i do an even shittier job because of it. My advice would be to try to learn new thing to improve your skills and do a better job, maybe it would help.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#58

Post by petercooper »

The problem is that I dislike coding. I find it to be very boring.

"The problem is that I dislike practical work - making or fixing things with my hands. I find it to be very boring. Where's the fun in messy, practical things?"

Different strokes for different folks. If you don't find programming inherently interesting, it's probably not your schtick. It sounds like you might prefer SEO, content architecture, or a similar related discipline that's not code based.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#59

Post by rimantas »

nopassrecover wrote: post #7
gte910h wrote: post #5

>Can anyone passionate about coding tell me where the fun is in coding? You're doing a very unfun form of coding. IMO. HTML/CSS/Javascript and many uses of php are about the equivalent of finishing a kitchen off in a home. Other forms of coding are like building the Eiffel Tower. You may wish to try outsourcing the coding portions and taking on more volume.

Yeah HTML/CSS/Javascript and PHP are some of the worst possible examples of "coding". I was forced to use PHP on a recent project and I felt like tearing my eyes out it was that bad and immature compared to other methods. It was like telling a formula one driver they have to drive through peak hour in a rundown 1970s ford and then asking if they like driving.

  Yeah HTML/CSS/Javascript and PHP are some of the worst
  possible examples of "coding"
So sad to see similar statements. I am the only one who loves working with HTML and CSS? I wouldn't say I love PHP, sure it is not the best language out there, but it is not that bad. Unless you never bothered to check out what's in PHP 5 (or 5.3) and keep going with PHP 4 code.

Don't dismiss HTML. Sure, it is not programming, but so often good programmers produce crap HTML maybe dismissing it as trivial and not worth learning properly. However producing page in HTML and CSS involves a lot of similar activity: you evaluate the whole system (layout) you have to build, identify different parts, decide how to code them in proper, semantic way, avoiding unnecessary elements, then style it all in CSS, maybe enhance with some Javascript. At the same time you don't forget about progressive enhancement and graceful degradation, cross browser support (this is less fun part).

I think the task of splitting that finished visual picture of design into proper HTML structure and CSS decoration is the actual difficulty some are facing, but mistakenly thinking thats the problem with CSS.

And now, with HTML5 on the doorstep and all the fun CSS3 allows front-end coding is even more exciting. My recent interest — client-side optimization adds to this excitement. I learned about programming by reading code in some magazines (had no access to computers till my first year at university), now I've been coding for 20 years, doing web work for 14, went all the way from first HTML being rendered in Netscape 2 through table layouts (oh those nested tables to get 1px border in IE and 1x1 GIFs…) to CSS3 layouts with fun effects rendered in WebKit nightly. I am equally well versed in both client side and server side development, but I'd say that even after all these years I still think client-side work is a lot of fun.

I initially was attracted to web because I enjoyed learning and trying a wide range of technologies: from working with graphics in Photoshop to setting up and configuring Apache. Still feeling the same.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#60

Post by albertzeyer »

Let's try go from the other side: What parts of coding are so boring for you?

Is it that you have to redo and reimplement stuff again and again?

Is it that you know the algorithm but it is so complicated to implement it?

Is it that it does never really work like you intent it right out of the box?

Is it the debugging part?

Is it that the things you are implementing are just trivial things (which you maybe would expect to work just automatically and you don't have to care about this stuff in a perfect world)?

Or what else?

Many of these things are also maybe related to the language you are using. You should look a bit around and dive into other languages. You will find it amazing how trivial and easy some things can be done there. It could be that 1000 lines of boring PHP code become one single line of code in another language.

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