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Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

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Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#11

Post by alexwyser »

nopassrecover wrote: post #7
gte910h wrote: post #5

>Can anyone passionate about coding tell me where the fun is in coding? You're doing a very unfun form of coding. IMO. HTML/CSS/Javascript and many uses of php are about the equivalent of finishing a kitchen off in a home. Other forms of coding are like building the Eiffel Tower. You may wish to try outsourcing the coding portions and taking on more volume.

Yeah HTML/CSS/Javascript and PHP are some of the worst possible examples of "coding". I was forced to use PHP on a recent project and I felt like tearing my eyes out it was that bad and immature compared to other methods. It was like telling a formula one driver they have to drive through peak hour in a rundown 1970s ford and then asking if they like driving.

What language would you recommend to be the most fun to work with?

Whats the best way for a beginner to learn that (I know by practice, but which books, websites, tutorials, and in what order) ?

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#12

Post by robryan »

gte910h wrote: post #5

>Can anyone passionate about coding tell me where the fun is in coding? You're doing a very unfun form of coding. IMO. HTML/CSS/Javascript and many uses of php are about the equivalent of finishing a kitchen off in a home. Other forms of coding are like building the Eiffel Tower. You may wish to try outsourcing the coding portions and taking on more volume.

Depends what your using those tools to do and how your doing it. It's true that a lot of web development with some simple PHP to glue it together and give it some basic interactivity can be boring.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#13

Post by junkbit »

The way that I taught myself as a nipper was games programming. Even the smallest graphics demo can be very satisfying as you can tweak them till your hearts content; endless variations and incremental improvements.

I had to do it by hand in C and Asm (mode 13h ftw!) I'd imagine it's much easier now to start with OpenGL, XNA, Unreal Engine and higher level languages.

Also I never had screencasts. Or the internets.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#14

Post by robryan »

nopassrecover wrote: post #7
gte910h wrote: post #5

>Can anyone passionate about coding tell me where the fun is in coding? You're doing a very unfun form of coding. IMO. HTML/CSS/Javascript and many uses of php are about the equivalent of finishing a kitchen off in a home. Other forms of coding are like building the Eiffel Tower. You may wish to try outsourcing the coding portions and taking on more volume.

Yeah HTML/CSS/Javascript and PHP are some of the worst possible examples of "coding". I was forced to use PHP on a recent project and I felt like tearing my eyes out it was that bad and immature compared to other methods. It was like telling a formula one driver they have to drive through peak hour in a rundown 1970s ford and then asking if they like driving.

Anything in particular that makes you really dislike PHP?

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#15

Post by drcode »

A computer program is a little world you build where you decide the rules and can see what happens. More than that, the rules are followed perfectly and you can observe your world thousands of times and it will always do exactly the same thing.

I think programming is the most amazing thing I've ever experienced (well, maybe second-most amazing ;-)

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#16

Post by rikthevik »

For me, the fun is writing good frameworks so that new features are easy to write. If you've done a good job of A, B and C, then coding up D, E and F is relatively easy. It's a great feeling when your attention, care and forethought pay off.

Conversely, when you're dealing with a teetering, creaky code base and writing feature D means rewriting A, B and C, that is not so much fun.

(I find PHP to be extremely un-fun as well. Try Python or Ruby - languages written by people with more of a clue.)

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#17

Post by alexwyser »

Khao wrote: post #4

I am a programmer and I am very passionate about coding. I think it all comes from the fact that I loved mathematics and physics in school. I love solving problems, finding ways to reach your goal using your logic. On the other hand, I dislike designing because I am not good at creating something without a specific goal. I can't just think up ideas for design. However, when I am faced with a problem where I have a st…

I too like finding the logic behind how everything works and how to implement a certain feature. And I can think up innovative (and effective/efficient) solutions to problems, But I find it very boring to translate that into lines of code.

For example, I can think up a way in which users will never have to register or login to individual websites, by storing all their information on their browsers, and I can find a millions flaws in that concept and solutions for all of them. And I have fun doing that. But I could never sit and write the thousands (or millions) of lines of code to make that work.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#18

Post by irahul »

> So I learned HTML, CSS

IMO if you don't do HTML/CSS, you aren't a web designer.

> For example, I live the concept of ranking a page higher based on how other sites link to it (ie Google's Pagerank), and would enjoy conceptualizing further improvements,

You don't know the details to understand it isn't as easy as you think. If you think you can conceptually do further improvements, I would really like you to try that. You will get a better picture.

To give you an analogy, I can say that many users are on slow networks and are irritated when their download freezes mid way and they have to do it again. So, it would make sense to have a download implementation in which the user can pause/resume download at will. I can pause a download today, come back tomorrow, resume it and it just works. What more, since I already have some part of the file, I can switch off my system, switch it on, resume the download and still be able to get only remaining chunks.

I can say I conceptually solved a problem but practically, all I did was whine, some wishful thinking and showed my ignorance.

> For a web application, the code might make the entire thing operate, but it never affects the user the way the design or interface does.

You are totally misguided here. I would have a lot to say here but I am afraid you won't be able to relate with it. I am making this assumption because had you been familiar with what it takes to run any significant web app, you won't have made this statement.

I would just like to point out that Google services has minimal interfaces and the users are happy, surely it isn't because of the interface.

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#19

Post by japherwocky »

alexwyser wrote: post #11
nopassrecover wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah HTML/CSS/Javascript and PHP are some of the worst possible examples of "coding". I was forced to use PHP on a recent project and I felt like tearing my eyes out it was that bad and immature compared to other methods. It was like telling a formula one driver they have to drive through peak hour in a rundown 1970s ford and then asking if they like driving.

What language would you recommend to be the most fun to work with? Whats the best way for a beginner to learn that (I know by practice, but which books, websites, tutorials, and in what order) ?

Python is a great language to learn and work with: http://docs.python.org/tutorial/

Re: Ask HN: Where's the fun in programming?

#20

Post by jgg »

Doing my own thing in languages I like using was what made me enjoy it.

What you're doing now sucks. HTML and CSS are boring to write and, IMO, are better suited to being generated by a program than being explicitly written by hand. Vanilla Javascript isn't so terrible, but what you typically do with it is boring. PHP is terrible in so many ways I don't feel like naming them, and the type of thing you do with PHP is also fantastically boring.

You need to pick a high-level language that makes implementing things easy. You don't want to be bogged down in the details of implementation. You just want to think of something and have it work, right? Get started using Python/Lisp/Ruby/Perl/Whatevermakesyouhappy. Find a language that meshes with how you think and go with it.

Don't think I'm placing too much emphasis on language choice though. The important thing is to do something you want to do. Start writing the programs you want to see written, or that you think will be the most fun to write. I think the latter is more important in your case. You seem to enjoy the "thinking of" more than the "doing" part, a preference towards which I myself am inclined.

Good luck!

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