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Facebook is an attack on the open web

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Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#301
The "open web" is really an Eden-like myth, as there has and always will be stakeholders with various agendas chicaning the free exchange of information. Sorry, yes, but we really are opportunistic fucks. Not to Gordon Gecko levels, but an element of it will always be there and we need to collectively acknowledge and integrate it if we are to evolve.

Either way, Facebook's obfuscation of data is justifiably a cause for the concern due to the mass adoption of its platform. Yet, it's easy to focus on the machinations and fuckery that Facebook engage in to hold our gaze and numb our minds. What's more difficult is to question the agency of its hundreds of millions of users, who each have a slab of skull-encased smartmeat that gifts them with relative free will in their lives. Rather predictably, it comes down to a question of agency and personal responsibility: if you don't like the site, get off it.

But were only it so simple. Facebook is so deeply entrenched in the infrastructure of our personal lives, that it's very difficult for a lot of 'normies'(sic) to just pack up and fuck off. While the HN community may be au fait with the finer points of privacy, mass surveillance, and the founding principles of our nascent virtual civilisation - Dave from softball in Akron or Juliette who has a duck farm in the south of France do not. While they'd be concerned about those things if they were explained and they grokked the implications, their fucks lie elsewhere and, hence, Big Social Media remains a fringe idea.

TLDR: We get the social media we deserve.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#302
post #249
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an issue for a really small segment of users. Not really. I'm from India; while my home network connection is pretty good, when I'm travelling anywhere outside the metros, the mobile network speed is abysmal. However quite a few news outlets employ Facebook's comment system. You can imagine what a nightmare it'll be for users to load all that with a 2G connection. > You are loading 37 assets to support a so…

Your experience on 2G networks is already degraded; removing an asynchronous comment system will not magically fix it or make it better. > 37 Javascript files out of which, I'm willing to bet, most are tracking agents employing every trick in the book to record all activit You would lose that bet.

My solution is much easier. I block all known FB IPs via provisioning rules on my phone, and never have to see (or pay for) any of that crap.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like facebook. It's nice to stay in touch with your friends, especially when abroad.

Facebook is really nice for many usecases. But it could be way more open without ruining those usecases. It is just so hostile to non-facebook users. The primary example being the one cited in the article: The only reason to block 1/3 of a page to nonlogged in users is to convince you to either sign up or log in. There is no user-based reason to do so. That is open-web hostile. There is no need to make the all the co…

For people who are privacy obsessed, just create a fake account. You'll find that all your friends are sympathetic and are more than happy to friend you. I know several people who do this and I happily friend them. My bday and location information is all fake, for example. I click on ads sometime when they peak my interest. I think once I actually bought something based on what I saw on Facebook, but I can't remember if it was because someone shared it or it was sponsored. I honestly don't know whether it matters or what the big deal is.

Admittedly my profile picture is there. I worry about that sometimes and is probably my biggest concern. But it's not facebook's fault i posted a picture. There's no rule you can't see your friends posts if you don't post your own photo, and I have friends who just use a picture of their dog or something instead and it never bugs me.

Honestly, Facebook is just a business and in return you look at ads now and then. If people had to pay I don't think it'd be very popular.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you know you can sort your newsfeed to "most recent" right? And mute your obnoxious friends from appearing in your newsfeed. You can also hide posts from particular websites from appearing on your newsfeed. In a short period of time, that would solve 90% of your problems.

> you know you can sort your newsfeed to "most recent" right? Just looked through settings and wasn't able to find anything for order of posts in news feed. > And mute your obnoxious friends from appearing in your newsfeed. Yep this is pretty easy to do. > You can also hide posts from particular websites from appearing on your newsfeed. This isn't helpful since you cannot block the entire class of "transitive" posts.…

It's not in settings, it's in the News Feed toggle on the top of the navigation pane on the top LHS of the home page.

And I think after a couple weeks hiding posts you'll significantly reduce the variety of content hitting your newsfeed.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#305

I'm baffled by some of the comments here... Is it so difficult for you guys to just have a facebook account that you don't check in on? You can still sign into random sites that require it that way, arrange meetups, etc but without 'scrolling your life away' I expect people like me who spend most of their day on the computer to have at least as much digital self discipline as I have, but perhaps that's a poor assumpt…

Yep, there is this thin line in between that requires a little bit of self discipline where everything's fine. Still, the problem is with illiterates in technical fields or general privacy that let everything go to hell. People can't control facebook in general I'll shamelessly state without citing sources.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a part of the local Bay Area music scene and Facebook events has basically become the standard for posting about shows. Without a Facebook I just don't hear about them. I'm considering making a dummy account with a few friends just for the purpose of finding out about events. Side note, does anyone know of a service that allows you to track FB events without having to be in the Facebook app? Not sure if there's a…

I feel you. Facebook virtually grants a certificate of existence. It's almost unimaginable why someone that wants to play music wouldn't have a facebook presence. (Don't know if that last sentence was correct, non native here). My point is the following: I was one day on the street and saw a flyer glued onto a wall, it looked kinda funky and hand-drawn, interesting; some DJ's were going to throw a party and spin sals…

I miss the old message board days where everything was really DIY and local, just a table with location and bands. People would post to some homegrown site maintained by a devoted local fan. Also miss the days of fliers!

Now I have to scroll through ads and a bunch of irrelevant "local events for you" just to find what I'm looking for.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#307
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem with an idle Facebook account is at least twofold: my activity is still being tracked against my will, and out of principle I refuse to support an organization which so blatantly disregards personal space.

Your activity is being tracked irrespective of whether or not you have a Facebook account. Google and Facebook will track you anyway and then correlate your browsing patterns with those of other people (about whom they know more) and infer everything there is to know about you.

At least with Facebook I’ve blocked their tracking bugs with Ghostery.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've enjoyed roughly the same experience but without the downsides. As far as events go, the neckbeard in me hasn't actually minded. I still get invited to "high quality" events (things my real-life friends are going to) and haven't really missed the lower quality events. Photos I just conveniently had solved by having all my photos on Google Photos anyways (I stopped trusting offline storage long ago). I think my Fa…

> I still get invited to "high quality" events (things my real-life friends are going to) and haven't really missed the lower quality events. Just to run a counterpoint to this, there are Facebook groups that have opened up whole new social circles for me and provide opportunities. I'm into whitewater kayaking and the "Where's the Whitewater at?" group has people planning informal trips at a few hours notice when som…

Yes, I go to a few underground dance parties a year and it would be a lot harder to find those events (let alone discern which ones I'd prefer to attend, who of my friends will be there, etc) without the networks I have on FB.

Re: Facebook is an attack on the open web

#310
Oh boy, so many users disliking Facebook in this thread.

> — a full one-third of my window is covered by a pop-over trying to get me to sign in or sign up for Facebook.

I get that John is clearly annoyed by a certain aspects of Facebook, but, I feel like it's unfair to say "Fuck Facebook" based on that. Facebook posts are primarily meant to be shared on the social network and not on the web. You can, of course, share it on the web, if the author of the post wishes to. But, Facebook has an amazing Notes features, which basically acts like a personalized blog. Long posts are meant to be shared via Notes and not the regular status update posts.

Check out this awesome note created by Kent Beck: https://www.facebook.com/notes/kent-beck/mastering-programmi...

They don't put a pop-over that takes up 1/3 of your page.

Also, I see a lot of people complaining about timesuck and how getting off of Facebook has improved their lives. How is any of it Facebook's fault? If anything, it means that it's a win for Facebook since they're providing good content that interests you, the user.

Also, stating that Facebook is trying to kill the open web is a bit ridiculous to say. Facebook's main sell is their content. They're not a search engine. They don't have to let non-Facebook users access their protected content. Yes, they do have a search engine that searches across the Facebook platform, but, you'd have to be a Facebook user in order to be able to search for it. Facebook got a lot of heat a few years ago for the lack of proper privacy features. Now, people complain about not having access to somebody else's content? There is no way everybody in this world can be satisfied.

Also, expecting Facebook to allow Internet Archive to index Facebook's content is unfair. Why should Facebook allow Internet Archive to index their protected content? The content is for the users to share with whoever they wish to share with, which may not necessarily be everybody in the world.

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