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US quits Paris climate pact

bbc.com

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Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#221

Post by aroberge »

nthcolumn wrote: post #176
sergiotapia wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how you think the NATO meeting was bad. Countries should pay their fair (and agreed to!) share towards NATO.

Germany is exiting NATO. They have already deferred any spending commitment until after BREXIT (UK leaving the EU). I don't think Trump's weird behaviour prompted Merkel's 'We can't depend on them anymore' speech. But bad? meh. depends if you think the demise of NATO is bad.

Do you have any reputable source to link to regarding your statement about Germany eixiting NATO?

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#222

Post by mikeash »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #83

So Trump is basicly quitting the Paris climate pact for the mining industry, which is mostly automated? Leaving the solar space for China that going to be the leader in solar energy. I've actually never thought i would say this, but my "admiration" for the US has drasticly declined the last few months. I think this also affects "Silicon Valley". PS. Am i right that your President only had a one hit wonder with Trump…

You're missing about three decades of right-wing propaganda. President Trump is the logical conclusion of The Rush Limbaugh Show, Fox News, and other assorted media.

These people systematically created a tribal political environment where facts don't matter, ridicule is the best argument, and Democrats are the enemy. They've been pounding this into the heads of any American who would listen since the late 1980s or so. Along comes Trump, who is the embodiment of all of these traits, and this extensive groundwork pays off. He's constantly wrong, but his voters have been trained to embrace that. He behaves terribly, but his voters have been trained that this is a good thing as long as the target is the left.

And of course denial of climate change, its negative consequences, and the merits of fighting it are one of the core pillars of this propaganda.

Add in the electoral college, which gives a substantial advantage to candidates who can win rural voters, and here we are.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#223

Post by exclusiv »

chockZ wrote: post #190
exclusiv wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of sad people quit/resign/temper tantrum when they discover opposing views or decisions. I think this was a dumb move by the president but Elon and others originally joined to try and provide insight and influence against opposing viewpoints. Did they expect to get their way all the time?

What is the point of giving advice to someone who will not take it? At some point, anyone in Trump's orbit becomes complicit rather than just being in an advisory role. If Trump is not going to listen to people like Musk on the largest of issues (Paris) then why would Musk stay on the (low) chance that Trump listens to him on other, minor issues?

He hasn't been on the council that long; there's a lot of time left on this term. Plus Elon would have better access to funding to leverage his energy agenda with his own companies.

He could also push for spending the billions that would have went in that deal domestically - more efficient infrastructure, renewables, etc.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#224

Post by epistasis »

rayiner wrote: post #185
electic wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ignorance is breathtaking. The US and other developed countries have always taken the lead on environmental policy that has resulted in real change. The most famous is the Montreal Protocol which resulted in the banning of CFCs and saved the Ozone Layer[1]. The policy decision drove technological innovation and created entire new classes of appliances and chemicals which resulted in millions of new jobs. After t…

The CFC problem was a narrow one, and the Montreal protocol was implemented a decade after development started on CFC alternatives. At the time Montreal was implemented, there was a clear picture of how to get from point A to point B. Climate change is in comparison a moon shot. We don't know what will work and how it'll work. There's not some single thing we can ban and fix the problem. It calls for structural chang…

Citation needed. Solar, wind, EV and now even electrical storage are being jump started with tax credits.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#225

Post by chadgeidel »

rayiner wrote: post #185
electic wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ignorance is breathtaking. The US and other developed countries have always taken the lead on environmental policy that has resulted in real change. The most famous is the Montreal Protocol which resulted in the banning of CFCs and saved the Ozone Layer[1]. The policy decision drove technological innovation and created entire new classes of appliances and chemicals which resulted in millions of new jobs. After t…

The CFC problem was a narrow one, and the Montreal protocol was implemented a decade after development started on CFC alternatives. At the time Montreal was implemented, there was a clear picture of how to get from point A to point B. Climate change is in comparison a moon shot. We don't know what will work and how it'll work. There's not some single thing we can ban and fix the problem. It calls for structural chang…

"climate change is in comparison a moon shot"

This couldn't be more apt. It took a nation-state level of engineering to make it work, but the science (broadly speaking) was pretty well known. I believe that a similar nation-state scale funded engineering project to address climate change.

Unfortunately - to torture the analogy even further, we don't currently have a moon base and we've not sent a human outside of LEO since then. Maybe a grand nation-state effort is doomed to fail? I hope not.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#226

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #185
electic wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ignorance is breathtaking. The US and other developed countries have always taken the lead on environmental policy that has resulted in real change. The most famous is the Montreal Protocol which resulted in the banning of CFCs and saved the Ozone Layer[1]. The policy decision drove technological innovation and created entire new classes of appliances and chemicals which resulted in millions of new jobs. After t…

The CFC problem was a narrow one, and the Montreal protocol was implemented a decade after development started on CFC alternatives. At the time Montreal was implemented, there was a clear picture of how to get from point A to point B. Climate change is in comparison a moon shot. We don't know what will work and how it'll work. There's not some single thing we can ban and fix the problem. It calls for structural chang…

[deleted]

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#227

Post by an27 »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #181

Offtopic, shouldn't this be the #1 post, it's probably blacklisted currently: http://imgur.com/XdEShU0

Could be manual or because it contains shitpost-attracting keywords, it's a Trump post after all.

(Not implying Trump or his followers are shit, just that partisan issues attract shitposts and unfruitful emotional discussions.)

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#228

Post by tanilama »

pavlov wrote: post #37

The United States of America spent a hundred years building up a global leadership position. President Trump has effectively destroyed it in a mere four months. China is adeptly stepping up to fill the void left by the United States. Last week Trump did his best to alienate America's long-standing European allies, who now feel that they are on their own against Russia's expanding European power plays. So Europe is tu…

I think even Trump doesn't understand, how big a deal being the global leader is. With power comes the responsibility, however, the opposite is true also. U.S. is steady on the track to lose its influence. It will be interesting, how much other nations/entities could stand up and fill the void. It is however a lesson to all, that it is dangerous to believe and hand over too much power to one single nation, only on basis that of shared values.

Anyhow, the rest of world needs to prepare itself with an uncooperative/isolationist US. I think U.S. is not necessarily a bad leader, but it is a clear fact that it doesn't have the willingness and ability to lead anymore, and the world has to move on.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#229

Post by mywittyname »

marcell wrote: post #107
giarc wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many large corporations have come out against this decision (P&G, Coca Cola, GE, FB, G, 3M, Dow etc). So if he's not doing this because of lobbying from them, why is he doing this? Lobbying from O&G companies? Or is it just pure ignorance?

> Lobbying from O&G companies Exxon Mobil's current and previous CEO were in favor of the Paris Accords. The previous CEO is also Trump's secretary of state. > Or is it just pure ignorance? There are vague claims that this will bring back manufacturing jobs, bring back oil coal jobs, etc. I don't know what the real reasons are, if any.

I speculate that Exxon Mobile's executive team is in support of it for selfish reasons. I'm not authority, but I bet it's easier for them to operate in foreign countries when the corporation's country of origin is involved in an international treaty because they can more easily claim to be in compliance of the law.

Re: US quits Paris climate pact

#230

Post by gonvaled »

panzagl wrote: post #202
gonvaled wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When talking about global warming, yes. To an overwhelming extent.

And this is why the US has so much trouble with climate change as an issue- first it was sulfur dioxide, then lead, then CFCs, now it's CO2. The US has been doing this since the 70's. Now Europe and China want to pretend they care with words, and giving the US's money to the third world, yet every picture of a city in China looks like London in the 1890's and it turns out those oh so green Euro car makers were cheati…

What are you talking about?

Lead is bad for your health.

CFCs are bad for Ozone.

CO2 is bad for global warming.

All pretty much universally accepted.

European cars, with cheating and all, are miles ahead of US cars. And they have been heavily fined for cheating, as they should.

And China has not yet contributed a meager percent of the cumulated US CO2. Not to talk per capita.

The planet is not yours.

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