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Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

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Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#61

Post by mgkimsal »

datawalke wrote: post #60
mgkimsal wrote: post #58

To chime in - get out. What the owner is doing is illegal as well as unfair. As for not wanting his business to fail, I agree taking intentional actions to cause harm would be bad, but I suspect they'll cause themselves enough harm simply by you not being there soon after you leave. From the other side of the table, I employed a handful of people in the early 2000s. We had a couple good years, and then a couple bad y…

Freelance may be my best choice at the moment. I do however have to make sure I have a little more in the bank before I make the jump if I don't have a full time position lined up. Instead of killing myself with extra side-work raising my freelance rate may be in order just to have a little bit more of a cushion. If I didn't have a family to care for I wouldn't be as worried. Thank you for your advice.

It's hard to raise rates on existing clients in a short time frame - giving them some notice (3 months?) would be more professional. Your current predicament is not their problem, really. However, if you could offer extra services (like, you never did DB work for them, now you'll do DB work) having a different rate for different types of work is more palatable.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#62

Post by datawalke »

mgkimsal wrote: post #61
datawalke wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freelance may be my best choice at the moment. I do however have to make sure I have a little more in the bank before I make the jump if I don't have a full time position lined up. Instead of killing myself with extra side-work raising my freelance rate may be in order just to have a little bit more of a cushion. If I didn't have a family to care for I wouldn't be as worried. Thank you for your advice.

It's hard to raise rates on existing clients in a short time frame - giving them some notice (3 months?) would be more professional. Your current predicament is not their problem, really. However, if you could offer extra services (like, you never did DB work for them, now you'll do DB work) having a different rate for different types of work is more palatable.

Oh, I mean raising my rates on new clients only. The rest of my clients would receive an early notice.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#63

Post by mehtastic »

derefr wrote: post #53
mnemonik wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an answer to your question. I am suspicious that you have zero measurable experience. Are you sure? You are familiar with multiple web stacks, but don't have a single website you can point people to? You were a sysadmin for years and don't have a reference? You have zero contributions open source projects (others or your own)? I think you might be able to find something that hints at your experience.

> You are familiar with multiple web stacks, but don't have a single website you can point people to? Only my own homepage, which isn't proof of anything at all, since it's about as visibly complex as an FTP directory (despite doing some neat things with Heroku, Sinatra, and a makeshift Dropbox API underneath.) It used to be a byzantine mess with its own forums and wiki and project hosting—and utterly no reason for a…

For what it's worth, having single server sysadmin skills is not the same thing as actually being a sysadmin. It might be enough to hire you as a junior admin, but certainly nothing more.

As for the web-dev skills, that's a fixable problem with a relatively small level of effort. If you started using your free time to start shitting out web applications with small, well-defined scopes, you'd have a portfolio in no time flat. It wouldn't take a year.

If you need them shined up, maybe you can try to meet a graphic designer who needs a portfolio as well, and work together to create a showcase for your skills.

If your classes don't challenge you, perhaps you're taking the wrong classes. This might be something that fixes itself as you get further into your degree, or maybe you want to consider getting a degree in something where you're currently weaker.

No matter what though, and this is going to sound harsh, you probably aren't nearly as great as you think you are. Nothing personal there, it's just that it's really, really hard to get great at something without spending a decade doing it full-time.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#64

Post by rkalla »

datawalke,

I haven't gotten a chance to read some of the other replies yet, but here is the brass tax: Your time at this company is done.

You know it is too; the language of your post says so.

For more clarification: 1. Your "boss" (I put that in quotes because no one needs to be your boss and he sounds like a tool) will never give you more money and will not care if you step out on the company.

2. Your "boss" WILL likely threaten you when you go to say you are leaving; ignore it. Tell him that is "unfortunate" and then leave. Give a proper notice, like 2-4 weeks to avoid any nasty claims. Please note that he will make those last 2-4 weeks as unpleasant as possible for you.

3. Move on. You have developed an amazing skill set, both from the tech side as well as the business side. Seeing and knowing a startup can succeed from the ground up like this.

You don't have so much time on this planet that you need to waste it. This guy is never going to "get better" or change, just step forward and leave this nonsense behind.

Forget the money, forget the bad feelings. Just push forward.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#66

Post by rkalla »

datawalke wrote: post #6
kls wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree, dude you are making 26k a year. Starting salary for a fresh junior is 40k and that is just someone who know HTML, CSS and Photoshop let alone if they actually know a server side language. He is lying about the 1099 being cheaper, that is only true if you are an S-Corporation, right now you are responsible for a little over 15% for social security, something that you are not if you are W2 or a corp. $…

"As for the "he has not taken any pay" crap, he has equity, you do not your only reward is your pay check in that situation." Very correct. On several occasions I have been promised equity. At first as a compensation for my pay, and then as vested. However none of this ever came into existence. Every time I brought it up again he would keep putting it off. But then in any discussions for a raise or anything to that d…

The others are right, you will never get enough equity from this guys to equal anything.

He'll give you 10k shares at 10 cents apiece and then want you to shut your mouth about it. Which is great, if the company is sold for $100,000,000 -- but it won't be, and he will continue to pay you less than 16 year old make at In n' Out burger and drive you into the ground as a penalty for holding his feet to the fire.

People that value other people, would have never had you in this position in the first place. He doesn't, walk away.

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#67

Post by rkalla »

datawalke wrote: post #7
patio11 wrote: post #2

I realize that feelings of loyalty to an employer can skew one's perspective on things. (Oh boy, do I.) You need to hear someone say this, so I'll be a bit blunt: 1) You are being drastically underpaid relative to your market worth. 2) The fact of you being underpaid will cause material hardship for your wife and children. 3) Your boss is exploiting you. Illegally, to boot. 4) Your boss will not stop exploiting you.…

Thank you for the bluntness, at times -- especially now, I think it is needed. I have been in this position twice before where I have been debating what to do in terms of leaving/staying. However this time is different. I have never felt a depression like I have over the past two weeks. Mentally commiting myself is something I believe I can take hold of. My main issue and worry will be finding a new employer. The are…

datawalke, you know about elance right? No it isn't high salaries, but as your "rank" increases, your rate increases and there is a ton of work on there.

I'm not saying do it full time, just walk out of this currently nonsense situation and do elance for a few months while you look for another full time job.

You'll be amazed at how many opportunities there actually are in this world that don't suck once you start looking.

You'll be fine dude!

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#68

Post by rkalla »

kochbeck wrote: post #40

The really unfortunate things about your situation are: 1. You're probably legally misclassified as a contractor rather than a full-time employee. You should read IRS Rule 87-41 to understand why that is, but the really telling part is that you're carefully managed as to work down to the minute. Dead giveaway - you're an employee. 2. Since you're clearly an employee, you're subject to the protections of FMLA. My favo…

kochbeck,

I think your heart is in the right place, but if this guy sues his boss (from what we've read) his boss will fight him until time ends, he'll be broke, and his lawyer will be driving around his new car.

Suing always sounds great on paper until you actually do it, and if it's for any serious amount of money you start to see the nasty side of the legal system.

Don't waste the energy on it, just run away. Call into work and tell them you have Legionnaire Disease and never come back :)

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#69

Post by alexwyser »

derefr wrote: post #53
mnemonik wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an answer to your question. I am suspicious that you have zero measurable experience. Are you sure? You are familiar with multiple web stacks, but don't have a single website you can point people to? You were a sysadmin for years and don't have a reference? You have zero contributions open source projects (others or your own)? I think you might be able to find something that hints at your experience.

> You are familiar with multiple web stacks, but don't have a single website you can point people to? Only my own homepage, which isn't proof of anything at all, since it's about as visibly complex as an FTP directory (despite doing some neat things with Heroku, Sinatra, and a makeshift Dropbox API underneath.) It used to be a byzantine mess with its own forums and wiki and project hosting—and utterly no reason for a…

Hi. I am a freelance web designer, and I am looking for a web developer to partner with.

You will need to create websites and web apps for local clients, which will give you the experience and the references. At the same time you'll be able to make some money.

And the flexible hours you get as a freelancer means it wont interfere with you studies like a regular job might.

If you are interested, email me at alexwyser@gmail.com

Re: Ask HN: Typical Startup or Abuse?

#70

Post by hippich »

I hope you got some valuable experience here. Some bad, some good. Some development, some software, etc. Be abused and say "No" - is GREAT experience too. You are set here. It's definitely no reason to work for such compensation.

1) Silently find a new place to work. (there is no reason to negotiate with your current employer, since he wont be able to raise compensation 4 times and give you all other stuff for sure) 2) Tell founder that you are leaving in 1-4 weeks. 3) Tell him why you are leaving. 4) Tell him that he have option to hire freelancers (you are freelancer now accordingly to way he pays you) on oDesk.com, elancer.com, etc sites. He will get really good quality on these sites and in the same time these $500/wk wont be abuse to these people.

I mean, if you are really good, and it looks like you are, you should fight for much better compensation/results for your - you have wife and kids now!!! And in the same time if your employer can't pay enough you - he should rebuild his business to outsource some work to other countries to not abuse local people.

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