English Wikipedia still calls it the "Tiananmen Square protests of 1989" instead of the "Tiananmen Square Massacre" which is what pretty much everyone outside China calls it.
Maybe someday we'll stop China from censoring Wikipedia.
Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day
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Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day
#42There's inevitably going to be people trying to justify the tragedy here by suggesting America is no better, pointing to instances such as the Kent State Shootings (Vietnam War protest). For those people I'd like to point out that unlike China, America doesn't actively try to hide the negative sides of its history to the extent China does. I can read about the Kent State shootings all I want, along with the My Lai Ma…
It doesn't really matter whether America or any other country gets it right. The entire point of the "tu quoque" (appeal to hypocrisy) rhetorical tactic is derail the debate and get people defensive, instead of focusing on the actual problems.
The United States has a long list of historical human rights abuses, starting with the legacy we inherited from Columbus of enslaving and murdering the local populations and continuing up to a laundry list of problems we still have today. They were wrong at the time, they are wrong now, and we should really work to not keep committing large or small scale atrocities, and redress what past crimes we can.
But that doesn't change the wrongness of other countries human rights violations, and doesn't mean that they shouldn't stop what they're doing and redress what they've done. The US or every other country being wrong doesn't give them a pass to be wrong also. We shouldn't wait for one pure leader of one untainted country to arise[1] and call us out on our actions before we repent.
[1] Peter Thiel, Immortal Sea-King of Sealandia, obviously.
Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
And the worst part about having to move out of country to find out things that were censored/hidden? You'll be inclined to believe foreign nations have a negative bias towards China. At least, that's China's (and Russia's) narrative.
To be fair, USA hardly ever reports positive articles about China. We didn't report on their moon landing until a year after it happened and many people don't even know it happened at all. Same goes with their space station. The only coverage went to their previous one that is leaving orbit into earth. I know that this is a small sample size and only related to their space program as well as my personal observations,…
For the past couple months the media has pointed out China's successes in tech in Shenzhen, how they have a much better stance on climate change than Trump, and how they have the most prudent position (that doesn't involve all-out war) on North Korea. That's pretty positive if you ask me.
Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day
#44Yet another example of "nothing matters like success." Since 1989, China has gone on to have great success - both economic and diplomatic, and is on the verge (if not already achieved) super-power status. Because of that success, there is not much anybody can do about human rights abuses, so most people don't pay much attention to it.
The Chinese Communist Party watched what happened in the Soviet Union when Gorbachev tried to save his idea of socialism with 'perestroika'--more political freedom contributed to the USSR coming apart at the seams. So China took the opposite tack--more economic reforms, maintain tight political control. So the CP is still in power, even though the 'C' is diminished.
Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day
#45There's inevitably going to be people trying to justify the tragedy here by suggesting America is no better, pointing to instances such as the Kent State Shootings (Vietnam War protest). For those people I'd like to point out that unlike China, America doesn't actively try to hide the negative sides of its history to the extent China does. I can read about the Kent State shootings all I want, along with the My Lai Ma…
Its because the west cannot do this in current circumstances. I can make a bet that when China GDP per capita comes close to the developed nations, their censorship has to be seriously downgraded.
And what do you say about Russia. Internet censorship is not all for hiding, there are many different ways to hide information, some of which the western countries are actively practicing, and I feel the situation is getting worse and not better over time.
Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day
#46Kind of a personal story, but my fiancé is from Beijing. She found out about Tiananmen square about a year ago. She only knew that she shouldn't ask about the Tiananmen incident growing up and that it was a bad thing that happened. She has been in the states for several years now and when she found out what really happened with our even blurry images and stories we have now it really changed her perspective on things…
there are much better previous pictures and video footage compared to this so not sure why you are so thankful, for starters watch on YouTube The Tankman
I think you're missing the point. It's a piece of history that has been buried. The tankman isn't the only thing that happened. The calm protest before the gunfire is rare to see and the more images of policemen joining the protest mean so, so much.
For the younger people they can't just search "tank man" on youtube in china and find out what happened, because either A: they have no idea what tankman even is or B: the video is censored. These images, just like the ones my fiance found years after she moved to the states will circulate and hopefully find more minds to make sure we don't forget this horrible event.
Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair, USA hardly ever reports positive articles about China. We didn't report on their moon landing until a year after it happened and many people don't even know it happened at all. Same goes with their space station. The only coverage went to their previous one that is leaving orbit into earth. I know that this is a small sample size and only related to their space program as well as my personal observations,…
For the past couple months the media has pointed out China's successes in tech in Shenzhen, how they have a much better stance on climate change than Trump, and how they have the most prudent position (that doesn't involve all-out war) on North Korea. That's pretty positive if you ask me.
Maybe it's a bit of her bias seeping in a bit, but I can certainly agree it's getting better
Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day
#48An inspiring collection of photos, but I'd bet it attracts little interest outside a few select, irrelevant circles. One of the most heartbreaking thing about the massacre is not just that the mass murderers who ordered it were never held responsible but that today it barely even tarnishes their reputations, while the memory of their victims has been thoroughly suppressed.
I'm going to take a kind of despicable position. We don't know what would have happened had the protests been allowed to continue. China is a vast country with mostly poor, uneducated people -- especially so in 1989. Look at what happened in Syria. Look at the Arab spring. Is it just to kill hundreds, to prevent the slaughter of hundreds of thousands? If the answer is no, never, I don't see how we can have states at…
Baizuo don't care, just like what happened in Syria right now, they still want to help the rebellion to against the gov even ISIS is threaten the whole world
Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day
#49not sure what has this to do with hacking/IT, but
Tiananmen square massacre is mislabeled event, more people died in other parts of Beijing than average in the square, so more appropriate name would be Beijing massacre or what Chinese use 6/4.
People who died in square were pretty much suicidal since they were warned to leave and were told to leave even by their own protester leaders.
It should be always mentioned that wife of current hard liner president Mao 2.0 She Gin Pimp was singing at that time to murderers in square.
Overall not sure why are media so obsessed with this event were few thousand people died instead or mentioning millions who died thanks to glorified Mao. It's pretty good trade-off with DXP for most of the Chinese compared to trade-off gained with Mao.
Re: Hidden Away for 28 Years, Tiananmen Protest Pictures See Light of Day
#50English Wikipedia still calls it the "Tiananmen Square protests of 1989" instead of the "Tiananmen Square Massacre" which is what pretty much everyone outside China calls it. Maybe someday we'll stop China from censoring Wikipedia.
The article is about the protests as a whole, they ended in the "Tiananmen Square Massacre" like the first paragraph of the article says.