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How America's Top 20 Percent Perpetuates Inequality

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Re: How America's Top 20 Percent Perpetuates Inequality

#41

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. ... Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." Now replace the socialist, trade unionist, and Jews from this famous quote and insert your income percentile to see what's going on here. I said this during the occupy movement. It's not the 1%, not the 2%, not the 10%, not even the 20% that need to be worr…

"socialists are lazy" tired argument...

Re: How America's Top 20 Percent Perpetuates Inequality

#42

I always get a little annoyed when people talk about benefits of some tax deduction accruing to the "rich". It's not that it's technically wrong but, but rather a sort of a truism - if you can take the max deduction and have a high marginal tax rate you will accrue more benefit (whether it's 529 or mortgage interest deduction). That being said, you also are likely to pay more taxes both nominally and proportionally i…

"deduction", perhaps, but what about "reductions"?

The AHCA had a provision to eliminate a 2% additional tax on dividend income (IIRC) for people earning over $200k. Removing that is, as far as I can tell, only a benefit to "the rich" (by some definition, maybe not yours).

Re: How America's Top 20 Percent Perpetuates Inequality

#43
post #6

It is only natural that the people in possession of resources are reluctant to share them; that is also the case in most countries, in my experience. The weird thing about the U.S. is that so many below-median-income folks are right-wing -- the very ones that would benefit from increased wealth distribution. I guess part of the explanation comes from the mirage that is The American Dream. In some sense a lot of us To…

Many members of the American working class have strong work ethics and don't want government handouts. They don't necessarily envy the rich but they hate freeloaders.

Re: How America's Top 20 Percent Perpetuates Inequality

#44

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. ... Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." Now replace the socialist, trade unionist, and Jews from this famous quote and insert your income percentile to see what's going on here. I said this during the occupy movement. It's not the 1%, not the 2%, not the 10%, not even the 20% that need to be worr…

Speaking of "class warfare":

"There’s been class warfare for the last 20 years, and my class has won"

Warren Buffett

Re: How America's Top 20 Percent Perpetuates Inequality

#45

I always get a little annoyed when people talk about benefits of some tax deduction accruing to the "rich". It's not that it's technically wrong but, but rather a sort of a truism - if you can take the max deduction and have a high marginal tax rate you will accrue more benefit (whether it's 529 or mortgage interest deduction). That being said, you also are likely to pay more taxes both nominally and proportionally i…

It's not just that they get a bigger benefit. They get to take a bigger deduction because, e.g. They have a big house with a big mortgage, or have generous health insurance benefits from their employers.

Re: How America's Top 20 Percent Perpetuates Inequality

#46
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He may (or may not) be contradicting himself, but the argument isn't wrong. By hoarding wealth, the richest prevent their own wealth from growing (out of risk aversion and greed), and they end up either voluntarily transferring wealth or it's taken from them by an angry underclass. You can see why (after the fact), they would've preferred the former. Posted this yesterday but Acemoglu and Robinson's Economic Origins…

The author isn't making any of the arguments you attribute to him. If rich people had to choose between redistribution and the guillotine, sure, then redistribution would be in their best interest. But that's not the dilemma rich people face, and there is no indication there will be a violent uprising anytime soon. Activists get ignored, unless they anger the wrong people and then they get squashed. The majority of A…

Are you saying that the wealthy regularly perform acts deliberately calculated to instill apathy in the general populace? If this is true then it is very interesting and I would like some examples.

Re: How America's Top 20 Percent Perpetuates Inequality

#47

I always get a little annoyed when people talk about benefits of some tax deduction accruing to the "rich". It's not that it's technically wrong but, but rather a sort of a truism - if you can take the max deduction and have a high marginal tax rate you will accrue more benefit (whether it's 529 or mortgage interest deduction). That being said, you also are likely to pay more taxes both nominally and proportionally i…

>and proportionally

Is this true if you count in the ~13% regressive employment tax? While income tax is progressive, we should consider taxes as a whole and there are some taxes that are regressive in nature that make it hard to make such broad claims without further work.

Re: How America's Top 20 Percent Perpetuates Inequality

#49

I always get a little annoyed when people talk about benefits of some tax deduction accruing to the "rich". It's not that it's technically wrong but, but rather a sort of a truism - if you can take the max deduction and have a high marginal tax rate you will accrue more benefit (whether it's 529 or mortgage interest deduction). That being said, you also are likely to pay more taxes both nominally and proportionally i…

Its worth noting that there are a fair amount of tax deductions that do not apply to those in the higher tax income ranges, either because they phase out as you make more money (deductions for children or school loans) or because they must be worth at least X% of your income (home office costs).

Its not a simple matter of "tax deductions benefit only the wealthy" as some like to pretend.

Re: How America's Top 20 Percent Perpetuates Inequality

#50
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He may (or may not) be contradicting himself, but the argument isn't wrong. By hoarding wealth, the richest prevent their own wealth from growing (out of risk aversion and greed), and they end up either voluntarily transferring wealth or it's taken from them by an angry underclass. You can see why (after the fact), they would've preferred the former. Posted this yesterday but Acemoglu and Robinson's Economic Origins…

The author isn't making any of the arguments you attribute to him. If rich people had to choose between redistribution and the guillotine, sure, then redistribution would be in their best interest. But that's not the dilemma rich people face, and there is no indication there will be a violent uprising anytime soon. Activists get ignored, unless they anger the wrong people and then they get squashed. The majority of A…

The author isn't making any of the arguments you attribute to him. If rich people had to choose between redistribution and the guillotine, sure, then redistribution would be in their best interest. But that's not the dilemma rich people face, and there is no indication there will be a violent uprising anytime soon. Activists get ignored, unless they anger the wrong people and they get squashed. The majority of Americans don't even vote because they have so little faith in the political system. This is not an accident, people are pushed towards apathy because that serves the wealthy.

This discontent is right in front of us. We often turn them into "racial" issues, but what is an event like Ferguson but a violent reaction to power? What is the rise of populists like Trump?

Spreading the wealth helps everyone from a Rawlsian perspective. But if you're already rich you have nothing to gain from redistribution. If civil unrest starts brewing you can easily skip the country and wait for the storm to pass.

If you are driving through a bad part of town and get mugged, you don't have the option to just skip the country. You can't seamlessly avoid random acts of violence which are rooted in inequality. Similarly, you can't avoid the effects of an apathetic workforce. If you want to be safe and live in a productive society, it benefits you to think larger than "I can just flee the country if things get bad".

Taxi drivers have missing teeth. There is nothing hidden about this. It's in plain sight. Just like the homeless in every city asking if you can spare a dollar. Just like the ostentatious displays of wealth in the "right" neighborhoods. It's impossible not to see this, unless you're a clueless dummy isolated by privilege.

Immigrants will always be poor. The author got here in 2012. Presumably his taxi driver grew up in a country with poor dental work and was a new arrival, too. It doesn't say anything about class.

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