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Paul Allen's new rocket-launching plane

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Re: Paul Allen's new rocket-launching plane

#141
post #133

Any more billionaires feeling left out of the space race?

Should we worry that every billionaire seems highly intent on building ways to get the heck off the planet? ... Do they know something we don't?

No. We already know that the planet will undergo drastic changes in the next 100 years.

Re: Paul Allen's new rocket-launching plane

#142
post #51

Dumb question: why don't they launch rockets from the tops of mountains?

Related question: Couldn't we create some sort of rocket elevator with huge and very high balloons?

That's currently impractical with large rockets but there's one smallsat launcher which looks like it's making a serious bid to launch that way.

http://www.zero2infinity.space/bloostar/

The low pressure lets them get away with toroidal tanks, pressure fed booster engines, and a relatively large faring. Or at least that's the plan, they haven't launched anything close to orbital class yet.

Re: Paul Allen's new rocket-launching plane

#143
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related question: Couldn't we create some sort of rocket elevator with huge and very high balloons?

https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/

The point isn't to get higher up, the point is to get out of the damn atmosphere so you can use wider bells, lower chamber pressure, and lighter weight tankage.

Re: Paul Allen's new rocket-launching plane

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a proven design. scaled composites, which built this also built the GlobalFlyer with similar configuration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Atlantic_GlobalFlyer

Clearly Allen and his team did the necessary engineering work, but I'm not sure the GlobalFlyer is a good example. It had a single mid-mounted engine, and had a gross, fully loaded weight of 22,000lbs. This thing has 70,000+ lbs of engines alone. The torque has to be absolutely colossal. Again, I know that much smarter people did the math, but from the eye check this does not look like a tenable design.

I agree. There are so many forces at such incredible potential levels of torque that the center wing must be almost entirely full of structural elements... and those probably pass through to the outer wings.

Imagine differing oscillations of pitch or yaw from each fuselage happening at the same time... and at just the right/wrong frequency for the connecting structure.

I'm sure I'm just overly paranoid, but often we find out long after something is built that some "little possibility" was overlooked.

Re: Paul Allen's new rocket-launching plane

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absolutely how I would've done it. Way cheaper to make a monster hybrid of two used 747s than to try to make a one-off custom airplane from scratch. Sure, it won't be as efficient at its job as if it were purpose-built, but you'd never get all of that R&D money back.

Once the concept is proven, once there is a real market for that, other, more efficient planes designed for bigger rockets will be built.

The market would have to be really large (like way larger than the current global launch market) to justify it though. The conjoined twin 747s are gonna be good enough for any payload that they can carry.

Re: Paul Allen's new rocket-launching plane

#146
post #43

The really interesting question - does the modest increase in initial velocity and altitude with a boost out of the lower atmosphere make it practical to build a Single Stage To Orbit rocket? If they can, then it's an impressive achievement. If not, then it doesn't really seem worth the trouble.

The altitude boost is certainly not worth the work. The velocity from the plane is small but since fuel requirements go up exponentially with necessary velocity every bit helps.

More important than that is that the rocket doesn't have to punch through as dense of an atmosphere when getting up to speed. That means you don't have to reinforce the rocket as much since it's maximum dynamic pressure (maxQ) is lower giving you a better mass ratio and it means that you're not losing as much delta-v to air resistance but that's only another 100 m/s or so for a decently sized rocket like the one being launched here.

But more importantly you can design your engines so that they don't have to work at higher atmospheric pressures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_engine_nozzle

A Merlin engine with a bell designed for taking off from sea level has a trust at sea level of 845 kN but a thrust in Vacuum of 914 kN all while burning the same amount of fuel. And a Merlin with a nozzle sized for vacuum use can go up to 934 kN when firing in vacuum, again for the same fuel flow rate.

Re: Paul Allen's new rocket-launching plane

#147
post #82

Scaled Composites built it. It should work. Although Rutan has retired, the company goes on. It's interesting that they didn't connect the tails, like the old Lockheed P-38, but there's probably some good reason for that. Launching a Pegasus XL has to be just a demo. That's normally launched by dropping it from an old Lockheed L-1011; it doesn't need this monster. They need something bigger to launch. There was a con…

> It's interesting that they didn't connect the tails, like the old Lockheed P-38, but there's probably some good reason for that.

Rocket exhaust?

Re: Paul Allen's new rocket-launching plane

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Landing weights are usually a bit lower than take off weights due to the extra shock on landing. for example the a340-600 has a MTOW of 380 tons but a Max landing weight of 265 tons. Just a bit of a difference.

That's the fuel the plane takes off with. I don't know how much this beast uses, but those six engines must be burning quite a lot of it. Also, the landing gears seem to be very robust.

The A340-600 has four engines, not six. But the point is still true with, say, a Boeing 787. Here are the figures for the 787-9: maximum takeoff weight: 560,000 lb; maximum landing weight: 425,000 lb [1]. In case of an emergency the pilot has to get rid of fuel before landing if the airliner is above maximum landing weight.

[1] Figures given in pounds on wikipedia, the kg version looks like a "dumb" conversion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner#Specific...

Re: Paul Allen's new rocket-launching plane

#149
post #50
post #27

IANARS but this plane should give the remaining stage(s) four advantages: 1. +230m/s orbital velocity [1] 2. +9km launch altitude [1] 3. can launch in more weather conditions 4. 1st stage can abort mid-launch without loss of payload. Of these, the most important is the increase in launch altitude, because that means stage 2 launches in air of greatly decreased density, leading to the following efficiencies: A. a vacu…

The primary advantage of airplane launch is that you can fly to into a launch window for an orbital rendezvous. Otherwise you'd have to wait for the target's orbit to be just right w/respect to the launch site, or do a long orbit matching process. This is very useful if say you want to very quickly and quietly launch something towards another satellite. People are making comparisons with the Spruce Goose, but the Glo…

Could I take my captured satellite to a base inside an extinct Japanese volcano?
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