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Uber Posts $708M Loss as Finance Head Leaves

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Re: Uber Posts $708M Loss as Finance Head Leaves

#51

Post by mrep »

adriand wrote: post #47
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$1,500,000 per hour in revenue sounds great. Spending $1,872,000 per hour to bring in $1,500,000 per hour sounds less great. I understand that it takes money to make money, but this is one of the most extreme cases in a business.

The fact they're losing money like this doesn't really mean anything because Uber isn't a normal business. It's not some little mom & pop outfit that has bills to pay. This is a company whose investors (e.g. the Saudis) have so much cash a billion here and a billion there barely matters. It's a place for absurdly wealthy people to park vast sums of cash on the bet that Uber will continue to gobble up marketshare from…

> until they're in a position to disrupt transit in general (and ride sharing services, too) with self-driving cars and who knows what else they'll come up with.

Considering they have a lawsuit against their self driving program [1], I wouldn't put so much faith on that

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/30/uber-fire...

Re: Uber Posts $708M Loss as Finance Head Leaves

#53

Post by BinaryIdiot »

lettergram wrote: post #16
bpodgursky wrote: post #13

$708 million loss, narrowed from $991 million last quarter 18% growth from last quarter (note: that's not Y/Y. this is ridiculously fast, given the huge base.) 708mm loss / 3.4 billion in revenue is only about 20% under even. And what most people miss, is that the 3.4 billion is the 30% cut Uber takes from a ride. Prices don't have to rise 20% to break even, prices have to rise 6% (assuming no efficiency improvements…

> Uber is doing fine. Yes and no, they are in a space which is extremely price competitive. I literally am watching Uber take a dramatic hit in my area right now. Lyft came to town and probably 80% of the drivers solely use them now, driving up the Uber prices. Now, I only use Lyft - as do most of the people. Plus, most of the Uber drivers are shady here and the people think Ubers a snaky company. I realize this is a…

> Now, I only use Lyft - as do most of the people.

Define most people. As far as I could tell Uber has a far bigger user base and market share. So I'm not sure how Lyft could suddenly be used the most.

During the whole #DeleteUber protest it took longer to get an Uber at my house in the bay area. Lyft was quicker for about two weeks. Then it shifted back. Now I can't get a Lyft in under 20 minutes whereas Uber is usually 5-8 minutes away.

My experience is anecdotal but I see no evidence to suggest yours was not as well. If there is something showing Lyft taking over a larger slice of the pie then please post it.

Re: Uber Posts $708M Loss as Finance Head Leaves

#54

Post by skinnymuch »

lettergram wrote: post #16
bpodgursky wrote: post #13

$708 million loss, narrowed from $991 million last quarter 18% growth from last quarter (note: that's not Y/Y. this is ridiculously fast, given the huge base.) 708mm loss / 3.4 billion in revenue is only about 20% under even. And what most people miss, is that the 3.4 billion is the 30% cut Uber takes from a ride. Prices don't have to rise 20% to break even, prices have to rise 6% (assuming no efficiency improvements…

> Uber is doing fine. Yes and no, they are in a space which is extremely price competitive. I literally am watching Uber take a dramatic hit in my area right now. Lyft came to town and probably 80% of the drivers solely use them now, driving up the Uber prices. Now, I only use Lyft - as do most of the people. Plus, most of the Uber drivers are shady here and the people think Ubers a snaky company. I realize this is a…

I'm not buying that most people use Lyft in your area - passengers or drivers. I believe you think that and your circle of people may also be doing the same, but beyond that, I'm guessing there's a lot of bias. Especially if you're saying everywhere you go Lyft seems to be more popular among riders. It's just not true at all.

For my own anecdote, I'd bet 75% of my FB friends with smartphones within my age range, 21-40, have Uber on their phone or have only ridden Uber. And a fraction of them will have Lyft. Among people I actually know, this is roughly the case, with Lyft being a bit more popular, but that's because of who I am/surround myself with.

Re: Uber Posts $708M Loss as Finance Head Leaves

#55

Post by threeseed »

nullnilvoid wrote: post #44
bpodgursky wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An irrelevant percent of people will choose to take the bus because their $10 ride is now $10.50. I agree that they are competing against Lyft on price, but they will both sooner or later have to reach break-even; neither will run at a loss forever. Rides will shift between them, but the rideshare market as a whole will shrink trivially when it does.

Many of my friends open both Lyft and Uber. They choose whichever is cheaper. Sure, Lyft might take a few more minutes to arrive. If you time it well ahead, it does not cost you more time. For me, I would rather take Lyft even if it is a little more expensive and takes a little longer. I hope Lyft catches up and makes it a real competition, which benefits consumers eventually.

In Australia we only have Uber and taxis. Nobody is switching to taxis because of a 10% price increase. Because most people are using Uber for the fact that they will always come, always pick you up and always drop you off at the right spot.

So it's fantastic that Lyft is doing okay in the US. But Uber is playing a whole different game.

Re: Uber Posts $708M Loss as Finance Head Leaves

#56

Post by wapz »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #53
lettergram wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uber is doing fine. Yes and no, they are in a space which is extremely price competitive. I literally am watching Uber take a dramatic hit in my area right now. Lyft came to town and probably 80% of the drivers solely use them now, driving up the Uber prices. Now, I only use Lyft - as do most of the people. Plus, most of the Uber drivers are shady here and the people think Ubers a snaky company. I realize this is a…

> Now, I only use Lyft - as do most of the people. Define most people. As far as I could tell Uber has a far bigger user base and market share. So I'm not sure how Lyft could suddenly be used the most. During the whole #DeleteUber protest it took longer to get an Uber at my house in the bay area. Lyft was quicker for about two weeks. Then it shifted back. Now I can't get a Lyft in under 20 minutes whereas Uber is usu…

> Lyft came to town

Sounds like the parent is referring to his/her town. It's still anecdotal because surely the parent doesn't have that statistic but it very well may be the case in his/her town.

Re: Uber Posts $708M Loss as Finance Head Leaves

#57

Post by skinnymuch »

nullnilvoid wrote: post #12

Revenue: $3.4B Loss: $708M Growth: 18% Quarter over quarter Cash to burn: $7.2B With the current burn rate, Uber can burn another 10 quarters.

Well the loss this past quarter went down. Though yeah, it doesn't seem like they are looking to break even any time soon.

Re: Uber Posts $708M Loss as Finance Head Leaves

#58

Post by BinaryIdiot »

adriand wrote: post #47
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$1,500,000 per hour in revenue sounds great. Spending $1,872,000 per hour to bring in $1,500,000 per hour sounds less great. I understand that it takes money to make money, but this is one of the most extreme cases in a business.

The fact they're losing money like this doesn't really mean anything because Uber isn't a normal business. It's not some little mom & pop outfit that has bills to pay. This is a company whose investors (e.g. the Saudis) have so much cash a billion here and a billion there barely matters. It's a place for absurdly wealthy people to park vast sums of cash on the bet that Uber will continue to gobble up marketshare from…

> The fact they're losing money like this doesn't really mean anything because Uber isn't a normal business.

Yeah, Uber is different because of its insane amount of investor money but losing money is still losing money; it can't go on forever. So saying it doesn't mean anything is a bit shortsighted in my opinion.

> It's a place for absurdly wealthy people to park vast sums of cash on the bet that Uber will continue to gobble up marketshare from taxi companies, etc., until they're in a position to disrupt transit in general (and ride sharing services, too) with self-driving cars and who knows what else they'll come up with.

Seems like an extremely risky bet to me. I'm unconvinced they'll be able to make any decent amounts of money in this service especially considering the majority of auto manufacturers are working on similar capabilities; they'll be able to drive the price down far below Uber ever could unless they start manufacturing their own vehicles.

Re: Uber Posts $708M Loss as Finance Head Leaves

#59

Post by encoderer »

objclxt wrote: post #39
bpodgursky wrote: post #13

$708 million loss, narrowed from $991 million last quarter 18% growth from last quarter (note: that's not Y/Y. this is ridiculously fast, given the huge base.) 708mm loss / 3.4 billion in revenue is only about 20% under even. And what most people miss, is that the 3.4 billion is the 30% cut Uber takes from a ride. Prices don't have to rise 20% to break even, prices have to rise 6% (assuming no efficiency improvements…

> And what most people miss, is that the 3.4 billion is the 30% cut Uber takes from a ride. Prices don't have to rise 20% to break even, prices have to rise 6% No, they have to rise by more than that. Your math is technically correct (a 6% rise gives you an extra $700 million), but you are assuming that the price increase goes entirely to Uber. There is no way Uber can increase prices by 6% and give none of that upsi…

Lyft just isn't a real competitor outside of major American cities right now. Go to a city without an international airport and see how many lyft drivers there are.

Re: Uber Posts $708M Loss as Finance Head Leaves

#60

Post by cameldrv »

objclxt wrote: post #39
bpodgursky wrote: post #13

$708 million loss, narrowed from $991 million last quarter 18% growth from last quarter (note: that's not Y/Y. this is ridiculously fast, given the huge base.) 708mm loss / 3.4 billion in revenue is only about 20% under even. And what most people miss, is that the 3.4 billion is the 30% cut Uber takes from a ride. Prices don't have to rise 20% to break even, prices have to rise 6% (assuming no efficiency improvements…

> And what most people miss, is that the 3.4 billion is the 30% cut Uber takes from a ride. Prices don't have to rise 20% to break even, prices have to rise 6% No, they have to rise by more than that. Your math is technically correct (a 6% rise gives you an extra $700 million), but you are assuming that the price increase goes entirely to Uber. There is no way Uber can increase prices by 6% and give none of that upsi…

You haven't been paying attention to what Uber's been doing. They started by charging flat fares on Pool, now they're charging flat fares for all rides. They're decoupling the price that the rider pays from what the driver gets. Pool makes this obfuscation easier, since the calculation is much more complex for rides that are partially shared. They do seem to be raising prices on riders without passing it on to drivers.
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