Ask HN: Why isn't F# more popular? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't F# more popular?

#71

Post by AstralStorm » Wed, May 31, 2017, 3:25 PM UTC

gilgoomesh wrote: post #13

F# is very popular, for a functional programming language. In 2014 it was the most popular functional programming language on the Tiobe index, excluding SQL (in the latest index it has dropped below Scala, Scheme and Prolog). However, functional programming languages are not highly popular. Most programmers never learn any functional programming languages, choosing instead to learn one of C#, Java, C++, Javascript an…

This is mostly because you can do decent functional programming in any language. Including C (though not as nicely). It is a different approach which does not really require much beyond having functions be first class object. It is even easier in OOP ones.

Now if you're talking generic functions and higher order functions, maybe. But those are rarely needed, as you rather want a tuned specific version instead - or a template.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't F# more popular?

#72

Post by AstralStorm » Wed, May 31, 2017, 3:28 PM UTC

wayn3 wrote: post #36

agounaris wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users don't care about imperative, functional, object oriented or what coffee you drink in the morning... stop calling languages shitty and get some shit done with the language you feel more comfortable with. We don't code for the shake of coding.

Doesn't change the fact that javascript is shit.

Very deployable but bad still as new versions are not widely available while old ones are crippled.

This is why there have been so many languages built on top of it.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't F# more popular?

#73

Post by AstralStorm » Wed, May 31, 2017, 3:33 PM UTC

JepZ wrote: post #41

neoeldex wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so shitty of javascript? From what I've heard is that people's opinion has changed about that. Javascript is evolving, and so is the ecosystem.

At its core Javascript is a good language. Some of the problems come from the fact that at its core it is a functional language, but for years it was marketed as object oriented. And when you look at the language and expect something object oriented or procedural then you will see a very bad language. Another aspect is the fact that many of the Javascript's problems were actually not problems of the language itself b…

At the core JS combines dynamic and weak typing.

It is not even object oriented, so instead it is commonly used with the prototype approach.

It is not a functional language either as functions can define global variables, therefore they aren't actually functions. And defining global state is the default behaviour.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't F# more popular?

#74

Post by AstralStorm » Wed, May 31, 2017, 3:36 PM UTC

wslh wrote: post #26

wayn3 wrote: post #2

javascript is insanely popular and its obviously shitty. popularity correlates very lightly with quality.

Node.JS specifically has a lot of libraries in certain domains not available, with the same maturity, in other programming languages. For example, in the cryptocurrency space there are good libraries (e.g. Ethereum web3 support) but when you try to use similar ones in Python they don't have the same level of support.

And when you use Java you can actually access even more libraries that do not exist in JS world. Including Ethereum web3 support. It even has a much more stable runtime.

Why did you choose JS again?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't F# more popular?

#75

Post by mabbo » Wed, May 31, 2017, 4:36 PM UTC

hota_mazi wrote: post #62

mabbo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scala may be worth a look. You can write libraries using it and pop them into Java code like it's no big deal. There's a few caveats and gotchas, but overall I've been pretty happy with what it's allowed us to do (Apache Spark in Scala especially is lovely).

Scala's future is very unclear, pick Kotlin instead.

Really? I hadn't heard that. Got a reference?

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't F# more popular?

#76

Post by amriksohata » Wed, May 31, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

For the same reason most functional languages never took off, they look succinct, but come back to your code in 6 months and its like a war zone. Also not to mention the fact that if you start writing your code base in a niche language that few people want to write in, then it will be very difficult to recruit and you're stuck with a codebase no one wants to write in, you might as well write in Cobol.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't F# more popular?

#77

Post by emperorcezar » Wed, May 31, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

pritambarhate wrote: post #12

Most of the programmers do programming for a living. They are not passionate programmers who like to learn new languages. They care about getting things done. Since Java, C#, Python, JavaScript, Ruby and Rails, PHP are all popular and have huge library ecosystem around them, for most of the 9 to 5 programmers, there is little incentive learn any functional language. Also since all popular and dominant languages are e…

Most 9 to 5 programmers can stick with the mainstream languages then. I'll be doubling my productivity by learning idioms that don't come in the Java/C# book.

Productivity isn't always measured by direct output. If I write something with 20% overhead that is 3x more robust, then it's worth it. This is what I see F#/Clojure/Haskell providing.

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't F# more popular?

#78

Post by dvfjsdhgfv » Wed, May 31, 2017, 6:26 PM UTC

I do mostly server-side stuff. Practically speaking, for the most part it means Linux programming. Unfortunately, .NET is still a second-class citizen under Linux. Yes, several people report they are using F# without problems under Linux, but I encountered several glitches in the past and don't feel like experimenting until things become more mature. I'm lucky enough to make the choice of the language myself, and I'd give F# a try, but after huge memory leaks and other problems with .NET on Linux a few years ago I got burned and would need a good argument to switch now. There are far better alternatives under Linux (both functional and non-functional)

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't F# more popular?

#79

Post by [deleted] » Wed, May 31, 2017, 6:54 PM UTC

usgroup wrote: post #57

maxxxxx wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I have tried using F# in my company but gave up after a while. Reasons: - it's hard to hire people - most libraries are written for OO style so most code will be written OO style - most sample code is written in C# - C# is a pretty nice language. Does F# really provide an advantage? - will MS abandon F#? I really would like to see a clear case for F#. When you consider factors like hiring and existing ecosyst…

Data wrangling is a really clear case. I do a tonne of this and it's so much easier in FP.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why isn't F# more popular?

#80

Post by vram22 » Wed, May 31, 2017, 6:54 PM UTC

usgroup wrote: post #57

maxxxxx wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I have tried using F# in my company but gave up after a while. Reasons: - it's hard to hire people - most libraries are written for OO style so most code will be written OO style - most sample code is written in C# - C# is a pretty nice language. Does F# really provide an advantage? - will MS abandon F#? I really would like to see a clear case for F#. When you consider factors like hiring and existing ecosyst…

Data wrangling is a really clear case. I do a tonne of this and it's so much easier in FP.

Why is data wrangling easier in FP? Is it because of functional composition being like using Unix pipelines (inside the same program)? But one can do that in a procedural language that has functions too.