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SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold

law.cornell.edu

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Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold

#291

Post by pbhjpbhj »

exelius wrote: post #111
touchofevil wrote: post #48

If you want to learn about a really interesting aspect of the "first sale doctrine" and how it applies to software, you should have a look at "Vernor vs Autodesk" in the USA and compare it to "Oracle vs UsedSoft" in the EU. Basically, in the USA the courts determined that if a company sells you software, but in their terms & conditions claim that they are merely granting you a license, then you can't resell the softw…

I think that this distinction is largely becoming irrelevant in the cloud era. Most software is sold / licensed on a term basis these days, and honestly the industry is healthier as a result. App stores are really the only remaining vestige of "buy once, use forever" -- and I'd guess that the EU isn't interested in going after it thanks to the small dollar amount and huge number of companies who benefit. Software was…

Physical goods need maintenance and continued investment sometimes too, not seeing a differentiation here between software and other goods. Could you perhaps expand on hire you perceive then to be different enough to warrant additional protections?

Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold

#292

Post by toyg »

matt4077 wrote: post #286
toyg wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some countries it is government-imposed, in the sense that national authorities exist in law, which will hoover up royalties before distributing them to creators and performers. This requires that any performance or distribution is recorded by (and paid to) such authority. At the moment, if an entity in the Italian market shows a French movie to Italian audiences, the Italian authority collects royalties before se…

I don't quite see how this is different from, for example, sales tax. Or, actually the status quo: if you're a Polish company organising a music festival in Italy you follow Italian law. That principle won't change just because it's a streaming service, for the obvious reason that anything else would lead to content distributers shopping around for the cheapest jurisdiction. Regarding the distributers' wish for marke…

> I don't quite see how this is different from, for example, sales tax.

That's a good example, and that too is a complete mess in the EU at the moment (google vatmess)... Copyright legislation has even more burdensome vagaries to deal with, like identifying authors, owners and distributors (in some countries rights can be alienated, in others they can't, etc etc) and get approval from all parties. This is why streaming services are so slow to expand in the European market.

> market segmentation: [...] will become illegal rather soonish.

That's a very optimistic view. Creators have very powerful lobbies, even the most heart-hardened bureaucrat will melt at the prospect of spending a few hours with Charlize Theron or Mick Jagger.

Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold

#293

Post by 24gttghh »

icantdrive55 wrote: post #127
balls187 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that even with importation fees, it was cheaper for Costco to import watches.

On the right day, you can get a high end watch for a lot less than going into a boutique. I bought a Omage Aquaterra, with the big white dial for $1400 years ago. This watch was going for $3500 in the authorized retail stores. Swatch took Costco to court, and lost. There's no factory warranty, but most of these new high end watches will keep perfect time for 10 plus years. Oh yea, Costco does have some watchmaker tha…

Besides the obvious battery life and water-resistant depth, what is the functional difference between that $1400 watch and the $20 Casio I just bought for my girlfriend?

Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold

#294

Post by ensignavenger »

rabboRubble wrote: post #266
delecti wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because using the resulting soybeans as seeds constituted creating unauthorized copies of a patented object.

Thank you... I guess that makes some sort of sense. Now if Lexmark can modify their printer cartridges to print and replicate themselves, Lexmark might might find cover under the Bowman case! I wish I could hand the SC justices 10 seeds each, with each 10 seed packet comprised by 5 GMO seeds and 5 non-GMO seeds. If the justices could visually sort the GMO and non-GMO seeds correctly, their ruling is actually "followa…

When you go to the store and buy anything, do you know what is patented and what is not? Do you know every patent that covers every part of your phone? Do you know what parts of any of these things you can copy? Patent Law is just like that- 'academic' as you describe it, I suppose.

(I realize none of those things self-replicate like your seeds... but I think my point still holds.)

Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold

#295

Post by stevespang »

Patent Holders will step around this nuisance by "leasing" their products using a contractual lease whereby they maintain full ownership of the property. A large payment up front approx. the same price as they are collecting now, with scheduled micro payments just to insure the lease is legally a true lease.

If the micro payments are not ponied up, they will have preconstructed further legal pitfalls for the lessee in the terms and conditions with skyrocketing interest, etc. (The "double dip").

Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold

#296

Post by simonh »

richrichardsson wrote: post #280
bdhess wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The scope of the Single Market is broader than that - it includes standardization of weights and measures, standardization of product names, etc Well historically individual states had their own regulations regarding weights/measures and product names, and that authority was transferred to the new market when it was created. These types of regulations ensure a level playing field between buyers and sellers, and are…

> It doesn't necessarily follow that the maker of the Chateauneuf ought to be required to distribute it in a particular geographic territory. Exactly. There are some awesome products that I can't buy in the UK, because no-one imports and sells them, that are available in France etc., and vice versa. Of course I'm free to go and buy them myself and bring them back without duty (for the next couple of years at least, a…

But this isnt about requiring Chateauneuf to do anything, its about restrictions on what people who buy Chateauneuf can do with their bottles, where they can take them and who they can sell them on to.

Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold

#297

Post by [deleted] »

sigzero wrote: post #223
algesten wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do hope EU gets on top of Apple/Google/Netflix/HBO/etc soon. It's supposed to be One Market, yet these all impose territory restrictions where content in Spain is not necessarily available in France and vice versa.

No government should force that. It should be up to the company on where it's goods are sold etc.

[deleted]

Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold

#298

Post by ckozlowski »

bhritchie wrote: post #198
ckozlowski wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think she's trying to say specifically that patent rights are preserved in the U.S., because that's where U.S. patent law applies. Her dissent is brief and only partial; and so I think she's only calling attention to a minor point that nonetheless has legal ramifications. Remember that the court's can also be to clarify the laws, and in this case, it seems to me that she took the opportunity to point out a gray are…

Actually it is a genuine dissent because the majority decision did specifically address that scenario as well: > Applying patent exhaustion to foreign sales is just as straightforward. Patent exhaustion, too, has its roots in the antipathy toward restraints on alienation, and nothing in the Patent Act shows that Congress intended to confine that principle to domestic sales.

Ah, missed that bit. Thanks for clarifying.

Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold

#299

Post by djrogers »

aaron_m04 wrote: post #257
djrogers wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you're referring to inkjet style printers - Epson did exactly that with their Ecotank printers. Big (by ink cartridge standards) tanks in the printer you fill up with relatively cheap bottled ink. Got my wife one for the homeschool classroom and it lasts a long time for very little $$.

Where can one buy these printers?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=epson+ecotank perhaps?

Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold

#300

Post by nyolfen »

24gttghh wrote: post #293
icantdrive55 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the right day, you can get a high end watch for a lot less than going into a boutique. I bought a Omage Aquaterra, with the big white dial for $1400 years ago. This watch was going for $3500 in the authorized retail stores. Swatch took Costco to court, and lost. There's no factory warranty, but most of these new high end watches will keep perfect time for 10 plus years. Oh yea, Costco does have some watchmaker tha…

Besides the obvious battery life and water-resistant depth, what is the functional difference between that $1400 watch and the $20 Casio I just bought for my girlfriend?

people who like expensive watches (ie other rich people) can tell that his is expensive, so he's part of the ingroup. it's an impractical amount of money to spend, even at his steep discount, on something that is also functionally outmoded for most people by smartphones, and thus acts as a high-cost (honest) social signal.

some people also like sophisticated physical mechanics (likely including GP, since he can repair watches), but i believe that's typically secondary.

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