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Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly

blog.chromium.org

121–130 of 352 posts

Re: Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WASM has 64-bit ints, did asm.js support those? How can you polyfill that without a real slowdown.

A property with getter and setter backed by singleton typed array instance?

"without a real slowdown"

Any operation, like 64-bit adds/muls/divs/etc would have to call emulation functions. It'll be orders of magnitude slower.

Re: Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean: "polyfilled with asm.js"?

That you can run asm.js code on wasm.

I suppose I should have asked "what does polyfill mean in this context?" Does that term really alias "run [it] on" or is there something more subtle about this term's meaning?

Re: Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly

#123
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Wouldn't it be great if they just created a simple VM with well specified bytecode so that we could push the complexity into our tooling and just compile into the standard target?

And if that VM ran on over 2 billion devices, on every toaster out there? In the end, this all is just reinventing the JVM, in slower, but more secure.

Were you around in the 90s when people actually did try to use the JVM for this?

Do you remember the part where everyone started using JavaScript instead because of all the deficiencies of Java Applets? (Slow to load, resource intensive, no interaction with the surrounding page)

Re: Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly

#124
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the first ones jumping on the WebAssembly wagon will be Web developers, so we will probably get WASM modules written in languages they see appropriate, when JS doesn't cut it anymore. I guess it will be Rust or Go. Rust because of Cargo (for npm users a big +) and Mozilla (good marketing of Rust). Go because of Google (also a Web company with good marketing) and because I read some Node.js developers already…

Doesn't WASM need GC support before Go can be used? It'll need to be fully managed languages until then, I think. With that said I'm just parroting some other comments I've seen on this topic in other contexts, so I'm asking the question genuinely.

Incredibly interested in the answer to that question as well. Go will not have a future in regards to web development if they don't find a solution for the GC issue in wasm. I assume (and hope) that's a bigger topic compiler-team internally as well currently.

Re: Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome and Firefox probably dont run on their OS.

Then they have bigger problems that they should be getting on top of urgently.

Can I live in your world where you can just tell customers to go away.

Re: Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly

#126
post #21

This one I'm fine with since WebAssembly is a worthy replacement, but I'm still annoyed at Google discontinuing Chrome Apps. Some examples of specialized apps I use all the time that would require a native app otherwise: - Signal Desktop - TeamViewer - Postman - SSH client - Cleanflight drone configuration tool It was one of the best things that happened to Linux desktops in a long time and removing it hurts users an…

Add to that list:

- unblockable advertising

- stronger DRM

- Bitcoin mining that regular user can't detect

- etc..

It will be good and bad, but, more bad than good.

We could choose not to run .exe .bat and the rest

So far, webassbly doesn't look optional.

Re: Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly

#128
post #68
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if that VM ran on over 2 billion devices, on every toaster out there? In the end, this all is just reinventing the JVM, in slower, but more secure.

> In the end, this all is just reinventing the JVM, in slower, but more secure More secure?

Probably the biggest cause of security bugs in Java applets is the fact that the applet execution environment is a full JRE, with all the APIs involved in desktop JRE instances available, with "insecure" ones being locked down on an as-needed basis. So if a developer forgot to insert a security check in the JVM, the applet becomes able to subvert its sandbox. The browser VMs don't have these APIs available in the first place, so getting undesirable access to things like the filesystem is much more difficult than "spot the API with the missing check."

Re: Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you can run asm.js code on wasm.

I suppose I should have asked "what does polyfill mean in this context?" Does that term really alias "run [it] on" or is there something more subtle about this term's meaning?

There's a high performance asm.js implementation of WASM (converting WASM to asm.js at runtime). ie if a browser didn't implement WASM, but had a JIT which executed asm.js at high speed, it could execute WASM at high speed

Re: Goodbye PNaCl, Hello WebAssembly

#130
post #21

This one I'm fine with since WebAssembly is a worthy replacement, but I'm still annoyed at Google discontinuing Chrome Apps. Some examples of specialized apps I use all the time that would require a native app otherwise: - Signal Desktop - TeamViewer - Postman - SSH client - Cleanflight drone configuration tool It was one of the best things that happened to Linux desktops in a long time and removing it hurts users an…

Your comment scared me, but TFA doesn't say that: > We will remove support for PNaCl in the first quarter of 2018 everywhere except inside Chrome Apps and Extensions. Where do you see that chrome apps are being discontinued? Otherwise this is FUD.

Deprecating it in the browser will kill any developer ecosystem. No one will write Chrome Apps anymore.
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