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For Hotels, There’s No Room Left for Online Travel Agencies

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Re: For Hotels, There’s No Room Left for Online Travel Agencies

#101

Post by marcosdumay »

gazoakley wrote: post #45
stupidcar wrote: post #21

If hotel chains were managed by sensible, tech-aware people, they wouldn't bother with these expensive, rearguard marketing campaigns. Instead, they'd get together and form an industry working group, and design simple, standard data formats and querying/booking APIs, and then make all their data available through them. This would make it far easier to build a hotel search engine, which would cause an explosion of com…

But they have: * http://opentravel.org/ * http://www.htng.org/ It's all XML based and sometimes it's a bit confused but a lot of hotel booking sites work by forwarding OTA/HTNG schema messages to booking engines (e.g. Siteminder). A heck of a lot of hotels are already bookable through those engines.

Well...

> OpenTravel provides a framework where all companies in the electronic distribution supply chain can work together toward the common goal of creating an accepted structure for electronic transmissions using XML messaging. This enables suppliers and distributors to speak the same interoperability language, trading partner to trading partner.

Had you not explained, I would never imagine this is about hotels.

Re: For Hotels, There’s No Room Left for Online Travel Agencies

#102

Post by chipotle_coyote »

TekMol wrote: post #94
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unreasonable to use a site like Booking.com or Hotels.com to get an overview of hotels in an area, then once you've narrowed it down to two or three choices, to go directly to those hotel sites and check prices. Yes, it's going to take you a little more time, but you'll sometimes find better deals, particularly if you're willing to take a few minutes to sign up for a loyalty program or two. Arguably, if you…

sometimes you get kinda suboptimal rooms if you're booking through an aggregator. They're making less money off you and they know it I would expect the opposite. When you book via an aggregator and they provide bad service you can fight back via a bad review. When you book directly you are completely at their mercy. Example: I just checked the Ritz-Carlton in Berlin. And on booking.com it's clearly stated that Wifi i…

See, I'd probably assume that the hotel's own site has the information right and it's Booking.com's information that's wrong--which may or may not be correct. :) Either way, though, I wouldn't assume that people who book on Booking.com get free wifi and people who book on the Marriott site have to pay; it's much more likely that one or the other site is incorrect: either the wifi is free or it isn't. (Or like Hilton, it's always free if you're a member of their rewards program.)

As for reviews, maybe? Hotels have to care in (ahem) aggregate, sure, and it's probably true that more people see reviews on travel sites than on Yelp or Foursquare (although it's sometimes interesting to compare). But if you're a hotel loyalty program member, then they have incentive to make you want to think well of their hotel brand.

Anecdotally, I've never gotten bad service from booking from Hotels.com; it's not like the hotel staff goes out of their way to be difficult or anything. But I've noticed that I'm more likely to get a room right by the elevator when I book with them, while I've noticed that booking as a Hilton Honors member seems to be fractionally more likely to get me a free upgrade, or a welcome note from the manager at a hotel that didn't give me one two years before when I booked on the third party site. All anecdotal, possibly coincidental? But still something I noticed.

Re: For Hotels, There’s No Room Left for Online Travel Agencies

#103

Post by falsedan »

tyingq wrote: post #91
Rexxar wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know this domain. Can expand on why is it a disaster for the flight industry ?

Airlines aren't paying 15% commissions to the GDS systems. They pay a few dollars per flight segment. If it's a disaster, it's a much smaller one.

> pay a few dollars per flight segment

per query/booking/inventory update

The airlines own the GDSes but carriers are a commodity now.

Re: For Hotels, There’s No Room Left for Online Travel Agencies

#104

Post by skinnymuch »

xadhominemx wrote: post #89
stupidcar wrote: post #21

If hotel chains were managed by sensible, tech-aware people, they wouldn't bother with these expensive, rearguard marketing campaigns. Instead, they'd get together and form an industry working group, and design simple, standard data formats and querying/booking APIs, and then make all their data available through them. This would make it far easier to build a hotel search engine, which would cause an explosion of com…

There are many hotel search engines out there already, and I don't really understand why new search engines would pick up meaningful market share. The priceline and expedia web properties (Booking.com, priceline.com, KAYAK, Expedia.com, Hotels.com, Hotwire, Travelocity, trivago, etc.) have pretty decent customer loyalty, a lot of app downloads, and highly optimized customer acquisition and conversion.

Couldn't you have said the same thing about Agoda, Kayak, and Momondo? All of the other Priceline and Expedia/TripAdvisor properties are from before the 2001 bubble. Most in the mid to late 90s. The three newer companies I mentioned all came in the mid 00s. And the latter two acquired for good money.

Hipmunk came around this decade. But no clue on how good the acquisition is. Trip.com and HotelTonight are the last two properties I know off the top of my head and they were also founded this decade. Both seem to be doing decently.

I guess maybe you're right and now there isn't room anymore. But if things could come out 5 to 7 years ago, we could see some more pop up.

Re: For Hotels, There’s No Room Left for Online Travel Agencies

#105

Post by TekMol »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #102
TekMol wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sometimes you get kinda suboptimal rooms if you're booking through an aggregator. They're making less money off you and they know it I would expect the opposite. When you book via an aggregator and they provide bad service you can fight back via a bad review. When you book directly you are completely at their mercy. Example: I just checked the Ritz-Carlton in Berlin. And on booking.com it's clearly stated that Wifi i…

See, I'd probably assume that the hotel's own site has the information right and it's Booking.com's information that's wrong--which may or may not be correct. :) Either way, though, I wouldn't assume that people who book on Booking.com get free wifi and people who book on the Marriott site have to pay; it's much more likely that one or the other site is incorrect: either the wifi is free or it isn't. (Or like Hilton,…

    I'd probably assume that the hotel's own site has the
    information right and it's Booking.com's information
    that's wrong
There is nor right or wrong. If they advertise their rooms with free wifi on booking.com they are legally bound to offer free wifi when you booked via booking.com

Re: For Hotels, There’s No Room Left for Online Travel Agencies

#106

Post by tyingq »

falsedan wrote: post #103
tyingq wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airlines aren't paying 15% commissions to the GDS systems. They pay a few dollars per flight segment. If it's a disaster, it's a much smaller one.

> pay a few dollars per flight segment per query/booking/inventory update The airlines own the GDSes but carriers are a commodity now.

>The airlines own the GDSes

Huh? Sabre is owned by TPG and Silverlake.

Airlines would like lower fees, but it's not as bad as hotels. They have shed most commissions over the years.

Re: For Hotels, There’s No Room Left for Online Travel Agencies

#107

Post by secabeen »

mindcrime wrote: post #85
barrkel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would reduce the hotel's value proposition to a commodity. It would only work for the most impersonal of hotels, the hotel equivalent of McDonalds, competing on price and standardized features. The kinds of hotel you wouldn't want to stay at, if you had a choice.

I no longer travel frequently for business, but when I was a consultant I was constantly traveling around the US and staying in various hotels. I would say that to a large extent, I always saw them as just commodities. I only had one or two pet issues that occasionally cropped up, but 99% of the time I didn't care a lick about the "brand" of the hotel, nor did I want to. Maybe it's different for recreational traveler…

And this is the fundamental issue with the traditional hotel industry, and why AirBNB has found a successful niche. When I travel with my family, I care greatly about the space I will be in. I desire a living room space, multiple bedrooms, a kitchen, maybe even an outdoor or backyard space, and I don't want to pay to rent two attached hotel rooms at twice the price.

Hotels seem to aim their products at their primary customers (business travelers), and the product they sell is designed to primarily meet their needs. They compete on non-room amenities (bar quality, workout rooms, etc.) and on loyalty points, which frequent business travelers can use to make personal trips to vacation destinations. None of these things have any value to a family that makes 1-2 trips a year.

AirBNB does target my needs, with detailed pictures of exactly the space I'll be living in, diverse housing options, with many of the amenities that I desire above. I also care a lot less about cleanliness when I'm traveling with family. Yes, I want clean sheets, towels and other personal items. However, I don't care about a little dust in the kitchen cabinets, some spots on the windows, aging/peeling paint, or a few spiderwebs in the corners. My kids are going to make a mess no-matter what, and I certainly don't clean my home to hotel-standards every night.

I have seen a few mainline hotel chains offer family-focused properties (The Hyatt House in Anaheim is one.) However, the family-focused ones aren't that common. An AirBNB apartment I can rent almost anywhere.

Re: For Hotels, There’s No Room Left for Online Travel Agencies

#108

Post by [deleted] »

dragonwriter wrote: post #88
Retric wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commoditized market does not mean lack of options or low quality goods. It just means the differences are predefined aka it's X octane gas without lead and a bunch of other things that you don't need to see on the pump. People don't just buy generic meat they buy Grade A (means something) Prime Rib (means something) Angus Beef (means something).

> Commoditized market does not mean lack of options or low quality goods. No, but it does mean that goods are perfect substitutes that compete only on price, although it is a condition which in practice is approximated more often than actually attained. > People don't just buy generic meat they buy Grade A (means something) Prime Rib (means something) Angus Beef (means something). Right. "Meat" isn't even approximate…

[deleted]

Re: For Hotels, There’s No Room Left for Online Travel Agencies

#109

Post by [deleted] »

dragonwriter wrote: post #88
Retric wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commoditized market does not mean lack of options or low quality goods. It just means the differences are predefined aka it's X octane gas without lead and a bunch of other things that you don't need to see on the pump. People don't just buy generic meat they buy Grade A (means something) Prime Rib (means something) Angus Beef (means something).

> Commoditized market does not mean lack of options or low quality goods. No, but it does mean that goods are perfect substitutes that compete only on price, although it is a condition which in practice is approximated more often than actually attained. > People don't just buy generic meat they buy Grade A (means something) Prime Rib (means something) Angus Beef (means something). Right. "Meat" isn't even approximate…

[deleted]

Re: For Hotels, There’s No Room Left for Online Travel Agencies

#110

Post by yabatopia »

briandear wrote: post #46

I feel compelled to respond since I am on both sides of the hotel business.. I own a tiny hotel in the Luberon and I also fly about 50k miles per year (staying in hotels along the way.) Booking.com has been amazing for us. They take 15% but it is completely worth it. We don't have "a name" nor do I have time to invest in the relentless SEO content marketing necessary to differentiate us when people search "hotels in…

The 15% seems fair. I'm not that familiar with the travel industry, how much more is that percentage compared to the commissions paid to traditional travel agencies pre-internet age? There were always,or at least very often, middlemen involved in the travel industry. Is the cut that for example Booking.com takes really that much bigger than travel agents used to take in the eighties?
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