Couldn't find the vote without teasing it out of the text - It was an 8-0 decision, with a minor dissent from Ginsburg on what happens when a product is sold in a foreign territory.
Where did they land on the foreign territory scenario? I only saw that the lower courts thought foreign territories did not cause patent rights to expire.
SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold
191–200 of 319 posts
Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you'd then have to enter some kind of a lease agreement, which would be a big turn-off for customers that would like to just buy a replacement cartridge without signing a contract.
1) As with many of the tricks that printer companies use to dissuade people from buying off-brand inks, if enough printer manufacturers did it, consumers might find that they have few other options -- especially if they've had poor luck with third-party inks. 2) I pay $3 a month for HP's Instant Ink program. It allows me to print up to 50 full-color pages a month with my inkjet printer, and when one of the cartridges…
They tell the company "I threw it away".
People throwing used printer cartridges away would probably happen a lot, anyway, right?
Technically it would break the contract but the issue is that it would be very difficult to enforce.
Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't appear to me that EU citizens are paying a one-time fee for a lifetime license. It appears to me (though I'm no lawyer) that they are paying a one-time fee for a subscription . I don't know whether it's time-limited or lifetime, but it is a distinction with an actual difference, and may affect how EU law regards it.
The whole "lifetime license in exchange for a one-time fee" idea in the Oracle vs UsedSoft case comes from that case trying to determine what "ownership" means in regards to digital products. In Autodesk vs Vernor, Autodesk was claiming that if you paid $3,000 for license of Autocad, you don't actually own that software you are just "licensing" it and thus the first sale doctrine doesn't apply, so the customer can't…
Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, if you sign the contract and the contract is legally "fair" (i.e., you weren't coerced, nothing fraudulent took place, etc.), then it doesn't matter what you say. The EULA isn't the only thing defining what agreeing to the contract means. The general framework of contract law in your country defines it as well. We can quibble over whether EULAs are enforceable contracts due to one reason or another, but you can…
The contract should be signed before buying the software, not when a consumer has already paid for it or wasted his time and Internet traffic to download it. Imagine if you bought something and then learned that you have to pay again to be able to use the item. A contract should be beneficial for both parties. But EULA only limits consumer's rights without giving everything in exchange.
Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold
#195"The problem with the Federal Circuit's logic is that the exhaustion doctrine is not a presumption about the authority that comes along with a sale; it is a limit on the scope of the patentee's rights. The Patent Act gives patentees a limited exclusionary power, and exhaustion extinguishes that power. A purchaser has the right to use, sell or import an item because those are the rights that come along with ownership, not because it purchased authority to engage in those practices from the patentee."
Then recaps FTC v Qualcomm:
Presumably, some people in another Washington DC building are now reading the Supreme Court decision: the lawyers working on the FTC's case against Qualcomm. The FTC argued in its January complaint, under a headline that describes Qualcomm's "no license-no chips" policy as "anomalous among component suppliers," that "when one of Qualcomm's competitors sells a baseband processor to an OEM, the OEM can use or resell the processor without obtaining a separate patent license from the competitor—just as a consumer buying a smartphone does not have to obtain a separate patent license from the seller of the smartphone." The FTC went on to explain that "Qualcomm is unique in requiring an OEM, as a condition of sale, to secure a separate patent license requiring royalty payments for handsets that use a competitor's components." For example, this would apply to a situation in which a device maker is a customer of Qualcomm and, say, Intel or Samsung's component business.
And Apple v Qualcomm including relevance of overseas sales portion of today's decision:
Count XXIII of Apple's antitrust complaint against Qualcomm is a request for judicial "declaration of unenforceability [of Qualcomm's patents in certain contexts] due to exhaustion." Apple alleged in its January complaint that "Qualcomm has sought, and continues to seek, separate patent license fees from Apple's [contract manufacturers] for patents embodied in the chipsets Qualcomm sells to Apple's CMs, a practice that is prohibited under the patent exhaustion doctrine." ... Apple's complaint already anticipated that Qualcomm would point to its corporate structure: "Qualcomm has attempted to evade the patent exhaustion doctrine by selling baseband processor chipsets to Apple's [contract manufacturers] through QTC, which is operated by QTI, which is in turn a wholly owned subsidiary of Qualcomm." Apple then points to Qualcomm's 2012 restructuring, which I already blogged about back then with a focus on open-source licensing issues. The Supreme Court's broad and inclusive approach to exhaustion simply doesn't allow any kind of end-run around the exhaustion doctrine through a first sale outside the United States as in one of the two issues relevant in the Lexmark case.
http://www.fosspatents.com/2017/05/supreme-court-rules-again...
[1] Yes it's FM but his analysis here seems better than it did 6+ years ago. I don't remember him saying things like this in the oracle case: "The good news is that the Supreme Court has once again overruled the Federal Circuit in a way that strengthens those defending themselves against attempts to gain excessive leverage and extract overcompensation from patents."
Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold
#196I'm a little surprised that Ginsburg dissented here, and also dissented from Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley : naively, she's "liberal", and (at least in my bubble) being "liberal" is associated with wanting less strong IP protection. But I see also that she wrote the majority opinion in Eldred v. Ashcroft , saying that the 28-year extension to copyright terms was constitutional. What's the right way to understand her legal…
IP laws are a government restriction on citizens. Conservatives generally want strict limits on government regulations and liberals want more government regulations.
Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold
#197If you want to learn about a really interesting aspect of the "first sale doctrine" and how it applies to software, you should have a look at "Vernor vs Autodesk" in the USA and compare it to "Oracle vs UsedSoft" in the EU. Basically, in the USA the courts determined that if a company sells you software, but in their terms & conditions claim that they are merely granting you a license, then you can't resell the softw…
Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold
#198I'm a little surprised that Ginsburg dissented here, and also dissented from Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley : naively, she's "liberal", and (at least in my bubble) being "liberal" is associated with wanting less strong IP protection. But I see also that she wrote the majority opinion in Eldred v. Ashcroft , saying that the 28-year extension to copyright terms was constitutional. What's the right way to understand her legal…
I think she's trying to say specifically that patent rights are preserved in the U.S., because that's where U.S. patent law applies. Her dissent is brief and only partial; and so I think she's only calling attention to a minor point that nonetheless has legal ramifications. Remember that the court's can also be to clarify the laws, and in this case, it seems to me that she took the opportunity to point out a gray are…
> Applying patent exhaustion to foreign sales is just as straightforward. Patent exhaustion, too, has its roots in the antipathy toward restraints on alienation, and nothing in the Patent Act shows that Congress intended to confine that principle to domestic sales.
Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, assuming the contract was valid. Lexmark could in that case sue their customers that sent cartridges to a re-manufacturer. The only one with a relationship with Lexmark is their customer, so that's the only entity they could sue. (However, given that this isn't a case involving Lexmark and a customer, the court didn't rule on that contract, just acknowledges the possibility.) "If the patentee negotiates a contra…
Instead of selling it, why not just lease it? They would then retain ownership and could very well claim theft if another company attempted to refill it and sell it. Shouldn't they be able to structure their lease agreement as a 1 time payment and 100 year term or something? If I lease a car, someone else can't repaint it and sell it legally.
If a customer chooses not to have a cartridge refilled but would rather buy a new one, the customer just returns the cartridge to a recycling point.
Sort of like beer bottles in the UK half a century ago. The bottles and crate remained the property of the brewery and you returned them to claim your deposit back.
Re: SCOTUS: Patent Rights Over a Printer Cartridge Are Exhausted When It Is Sold
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for the link to the Eco-Tank/Super Tank printers from Epson. I have ordered one of the wide-format ones to see how well it works. Sad that the 'print only' wide format is only available outside the US. Seems like 'print only' is the 'manual transmission' of the printer market :-) What I always hope for, and never expect, is people competing and using engineering quality as a competitive discriminator. I want t…
I've heard this point expressed by lots of people with regards to different products in the markets, i.e. "I would pay a lot more for the product if it did x." The fact that such a product doesn't exist tells me that either there aren't enough consumers like you out there to make a market at an acceptable price, or that consumers like you are willing to defect and buy a cheaper product, if it's cheaper by a large eno…
I have always hoped that we might some day get a market maker for quality, imagine something like EBay but instead of matching up yard sale customers with swap meet vendors you matched up customers with the means and willingness to both recognize and pay for quality. Still waiting on that :-)