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As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

nytimes.com

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Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#31

Post by coralreef »

johnfn wrote: post #25
taurath wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone does code review or whiteboards now in industry at least - it's not as if you're offered a residency or job after you get a degree unless it's a pretty good degree with some actual interviewing.

What percentage of applicants do they offer interviews to? How do you think they whittle that number down?

I've never seen "GPA" as a requirement on an application before. Listing your GPA on your CV might help if its a good one, but I haven't seen data to support that.

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#32

Post by ams6110 »

taurath wrote: post #9
johnfn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saves time. It's a lot easier to determine if you are capable from "my GPA is x" rather than having someone sit down and write code for a few hours and doing a code review.

Everyone does code review or whiteboards now in industry at least - it's not as if you're offered a residency or job after you get a degree unless it's a pretty good degree with some actual interviewing.

I have never written code at an interview, in nearly 30 years.

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#33

Post by glangdale »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #4

What's with the obsession with student assessment over student learning? At the end of the day the student has to perform, and there are plenty of opportunities to build up a network of people that will assert you know your stuff. Why is it that grades are still a thing at this level?

The student can go a long way without "performing". They are ultimately given a passing grade to show that they have learned things adequately. The cost that we bear as a result of lax certification is that no-one will trust your grades, and that you'll have to do endless whiteboard exercises at every employer to independently verify what might have been otherwise inferred from a single, rigorous qualification process.

It also creates a prestige problem for whatever university graduated some nitwit who can't code from a CS degree. Over time, it will be harder for other graduates from that university to find work.

I'm amazed by comments like this, frankly. It reminds me of how far computer science is from being a genuine profession. Would anyone say stuff like this about the contents of architecture or engineering courses?

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#34

Post by minimaxir »

adamnemecek wrote: post #28

No one talks about the fact that current CS curricula are fundamentally flawed. Too much time is spent in class, and on homework and one is left with little time to do "real" work.

Define "real" work.

There's a lot on HN about the dichotomy between "boot camps are enough for a software engineer job" and "you need to know computer science fundamentals to be a software engineer," but both teeter on the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Granted, I do think that CS curricula should include actually implementing things in production.

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#35

Post by [deleted] »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #4

What's with the obsession with student assessment over student learning? At the end of the day the student has to perform, and there are plenty of opportunities to build up a network of people that will assert you know your stuff. Why is it that grades are still a thing at this level?

[deleted]

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#36

Post by adamnemecek »

minimaxir wrote: post #34
adamnemecek wrote: post #28

No one talks about the fact that current CS curricula are fundamentally flawed. Too much time is spent in class, and on homework and one is left with little time to do "real" work.

Define "real" work. There's a lot on HN about the dichotomy between "boot camps are enough for a software engineer job" and "you need to know computer science fundamentals to be a software engineer," but both teeter on the No True Scotsman fallacy. Granted, I do think that CS curricula should include actually implementing things in production.

That should be left up to the student to define this.

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#37

Post by rubatuga »

parennoob wrote: post #14

EDIT: My comment completely missed that there were 100 lines of identical code noticed as well. Leaving below for context. ------- Does anyone else find the example cited in the article rather flimsy? Out of 450, two students incorrectly used the inverse of a Boolean for a conditional – an error I have seen tens, if not hundreds of times. Perhaps they used better ways of detecting cheating (some are covered later in…

Yeah but the students confessed, and it turns out the professor/administration was right. What do you have to say about that?

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#39

Post by yulaow »

glangdale wrote: post #23

This is hugely important as a lot of people see programming as a ticket into higher-end jobs and will spend as little time as individual contributors as they can. The idea that "oh, they'll get caught in the workforce" is not correct - quite often the plan in the mind of these folks is that they will try to fake their way through and be moved up into project management, technical marketing, etc. and never have their…

People have no idea how many times in a interview (especially with big corps) I end up talking with a PM and he tells me "Yeah, I started here already as Project Architect after my cs degree. I really don't like coding or anything related so I never do it, I focus on architecture and guide the others".

And then I mentally run away.

Re: As Computer Coding Classes Swell, So Does Cheating

#40

Post by adamnemecek »

srdeveng wrote: post #5

My engineering courses were filled with cheaters. Fortunately, these become apparent in the workplace and filter out in the first few years. Any major with promise of wealth will have those who will resort to ill means to get ahead in the system. Again, fortunately, many are weeded out in later stages.

You are assuming the system is perfect.

> Again, fortunately, many are weeded out in later stages.

Why do you care?

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