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Why do so few people major in computer science?

danwang.co

231–240 of 627 posts

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#231
post #54

What interesting things are going on in the field of CS from a scientific POV?

The research in CS is very active. Take a look at arXiv/cs to get a sense:

https://arxiv.org/list/cs/recent

I would say Machine Learning is particularly "hot" right now, with the anecdotal evidence being that many ML conferences (like NIPS, ICML, CVPR, etc) have been experiencing better than linear growth.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#232

I majored in computer science, and I don't feel like I've learned anything. Every time there was an opportunity to learn something cool (mathematical theory behind cryptography, assembly language, details of a processor, the cache, or a communication protocol) or useful, it was glanced over as 'technical details'. Instead, I was introduced to many, many small topics (programming, graphics, databases, algorithms, user…

I think you went to a bad school. Good CS programs go into the math behind cryptography (e.g. the prof. invented the crypto algorithm). Processor architecture, caches etc.

I saw the quality difference in the two schools I attended. One had profs teaching by the book and the other had profs that wrote the book.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#233

The grief factor of learning to code is on a different scale to every other major. One missing semicolon will take your whole tower down, and you realise this in the first day of practical exercises. Even if you are of the opinion that CS is math, and coding doesn't come into it, you will hit a coding wall early on. In fact, every exercise in CS has this problem. You add a new thing (eg inheritance), and it breaks. B…

If you regularly experience grief in a subject, theN YOU SHOULD NOT CHOOSE THAT FOR A CAREER. You could be doing it for 30-40 years. Why make life miserable if you have a choice.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#234

I think the market is just way over saturated. Hiring practices for developers point to just that. I mentioned in a different thread how simole it is for my travel-nurse of a sister to get a new job (her stints around the Bay Area paid ~100k and she only has 2 years of experience). Developers jump through hoop after hoop for employment, this wouldn't happen if they were in demand like a nurse. The market is just resp…

I'm a freelancer/run-my-own small dev consultancy and I pretty much never jump through hoops. The level of demand doesn't create the hoops. Some combination of needing to create the appearance of "only hiring the best of the best of the best just like everyone else" & fear of a bad hire creates the hoops. I don't have trouble finding work and often need to bring on additional help. The hoops are cultural.

The interviews for the big five (Amazon, Google, Apple, Microsoft, FB) are disguised iq tests. It's like taking the SATs to get into college.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a freelancer/run-my-own small dev consultancy and I pretty much never jump through hoops. The level of demand doesn't create the hoops. Some combination of needing to create the appearance of "only hiring the best of the best of the best just like everyone else" & fear of a bad hire creates the hoops. I don't have trouble finding work and often need to bring on additional help. The hoops are cultural.

Bad hires are totally worth the hoops to avoid. The problem I have seen is no one knows which hoops are useful and which are harmful and they do all the superstitions they have read about. I don't know if anyone has figured out a methodology for solving that.

Yeah, Im tired of working with poor or unmotivated coworkers. You just dont really know until you start working with em.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#236
Can we already kill the meme that CS or STEM are hostile to women?

Correlation does not imply causation. Disparate outcomes do not imply disparate treatment. Nobody in the right mind looks at the 94% of child care services jobs being filled by women and exclaims "Aha! Systemic sexism against men, matriarchal oppression afoot, we must address this social injustice!", yet all common sense falls apart when it comes to STEM.

Good talk on the subject here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gatn5ameRr8

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#237
One major factor not mentioned here is that the number of college graduates in a field is not just determined by how many apply to it, nor the author's #6 (reactionary faculty that fail large amounts of people). There is also how many people are accepted in the first place.

If a university has 100 spots for CS, then even if twice as many people apply for CS in one particular year, there will still be 100 people (but with higher SATs, presumably). There is some flexibility here, but it is limited - those 100 people require a certain number of faculty and grad students to teach them. They need a large-enough building with the proper facilities (you can send students to classrooms in another building sometimes, but it's not optimal). The campus can't just accept more than the students they planned for without preparation, and those plans are made long in advance.

If a university sees a field is popular, it may work to eventually be able to accept more applicants. But it might not decide to do so - popularity among students isn't the only factor considered, there are many others, like ease of acquiring funding and grants, likelihood of undergrads becoming graduate students (and whether the university wants more or less of those), etc., all of which require multiyear planning and also have various political factors.

tl;dr It's worth seeing if we can find data on the number of applicants, and not the number of graduates. It's possible the number of applicants has been increasing.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#238

The grief factor of learning to code is on a different scale to every other major. One missing semicolon will take your whole tower down, and you realise this in the first day of practical exercises. Even if you are of the opinion that CS is math, and coding doesn't come into it, you will hit a coding wall early on. In fact, every exercise in CS has this problem. You add a new thing (eg inheritance), and it breaks. B…

One of my professors actually made the opposite point: that in CS, the compiler will give you an error. You can fix it and move on to the next. While in math (he was a math prof), the paper doesn't object to your writing nonsense. If you have an error early on in your work, all the rest might be nonsense, and you only find out much later after a human grades it.

tl;dr at least in CS you get immediate negative feedback

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#239

Because universities continue to place a heavy emphasis on math, specifically calculus, as a gatekeeper. Calculus is useful but I don't believe it's necessary for a CS degrees.

but it's true for math itself also. you're missing a point here.

Floating or fixed?

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#240
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting to me about that data is the high rate of biological and agricultural sciences grads, relative to all other sciences. CS grad rates seem to fall right about where they should on XKCD's Purity Scale [1] (if CS had been included in it). 2004 was an outlier for CS, but it has reverted to its mean since. But bio and ag sciences are beating out Psychology, which is a bit of a reversal. Biology isn't eas…

Although biology and organic chemistry are much harder then CS anything, they can be learned in school and from school resources only. No one expects you to already come in already knowing how to code or configure linux. If you are good students willing to work, you will learn them, period. With cs, you are expected to already know a lot that was not taught in school - meaning that all kinds of cultural and social ef…

I haven't personally taken organic chemistry, but several of my friends who have taken both organic chemistry and algorithms have said that algorithms is by far the harder of the two. So I tend to disagree that biology and organic chemistry are harder than anything in CS.
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