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Why do so few people major in computer science?

danwang.co

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Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#161

Post by watwut »

elihu wrote: post #156

My theory: computer programming is awesome, but getting a good job doing interesting work is really hard. A bachelor's degree in computer science won't even get your foot in the door in a lot of places. However, there is lots of work doing IT for banks or writing Java for insurance companies or creating web pages for doctor's offices. That sort of thing might pay pretty well, but it's not the sort of thing that you w…

There are interesting jobs in Java, actually. Interesting for me means you have to think to complete task and that you have to often learn. Java was always getting bad reputation, but seriously, people who diss it the most are the ones who tend to produce the same small project over and over (but in cool languages).

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#162

Post by plafl »

lordnacho wrote: post #107

The grief factor of learning to code is on a different scale to every other major. One missing semicolon will take your whole tower down, and you realise this in the first day of practical exercises. Even if you are of the opinion that CS is math, and coding doesn't come into it, you will hit a coding wall early on. In fact, every exercise in CS has this problem. You add a new thing (eg inheritance), and it breaks. B…

And my own experience is that I learned coding and using Linux on my free time several years before entering college, where I studied engineering, which required no little effort. Programming is hard, I'm not denying it, but so is everything else if you plan to get paid doing it.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#163

Post by noobermin »

_delirium wrote: post #106
simonsarris wrote: post #11

Slight note about Dan Wang picking 2005: That was the peak of CS degrees awarded because it's 4/5 years after the height of the dot-com bubble. So the upward bump in the mid-2000's is somewhat explainable as an anomaly. I think his point 1 is underrated. CS degrees are flat because aptitude is flat. You can compare CS degrees to other degrees over time at nsf.gov: https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/2016/nsb20161/#/report…

Re: the choice of 2005 as origin, if you rebase on 2009, then CS degree growth looks on par with other STEM fields. Thus I think is's misleading to say CS majoring is "flat". At a certain end-to-end view it is, but that obscures that it crashed, and is now rapidly growing, not that it's been stagnant and unchanging. In the early 2000s it was widely perceived as the economically smart thing to go into a technical fiel…

>if you rebase on 2009, then CS degree growth looks on par with other STEM fields. Thus I think is's misleading to say CS majoring is "flat".

No, what you described is called "misleading with data" at best and "lying" at worst. There is a clear dip in CS on that plot that is suffered but none of the other points. Moreover, the growth is below the rate of increase in college graduates.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#164

Post by Spooky23 »

simonsarris wrote: post #11

Slight note about Dan Wang picking 2005: That was the peak of CS degrees awarded because it's 4/5 years after the height of the dot-com bubble. So the upward bump in the mid-2000's is somewhat explainable as an anomaly. I think his point 1 is underrated. CS degrees are flat because aptitude is flat. You can compare CS degrees to other degrees over time at nsf.gov: https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/2016/nsb20161/#/report…

Who gives a hoot about IQ in 2017?

That doesn't match what I see in the ground. I get 10-20 interns a year on my teams from big state universities and liberal arts schools with CS and stem degrees.

They tend to be awesome. The best ones outperform most of the consultants you find.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#165

Post by noobermin »

A random meta-comment, this was actually a very good and reasoned piece here. I am have tired of blog posts that wax poetic about issues while relying on anecdata and intuition, while this piece actually looks at data and statistics. I've begun to avoid blogposts like this that discuss controversial topics because they often lack those things, but this didn't disappoint. Great job.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#167

Post by [deleted] »

brod wrote: post #150

I am a self taught web developer, I started a bachelor in IT with a CS major mid 2014 assuming the title would increase job opportunities. Late 2014 I landed a part-time job in web development, that role then moved to full-time and I transitioned out of the Bachelor program as I was learning more valuable work-related skills at my job or in my spare time. Since then I've advertised to employers that I'm part way thro…

[deleted]

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#168

Post by mbell »

wvenable wrote: post #152
kutkloon7 wrote: post #79

I majored in computer science, and I don't feel like I've learned anything. Every time there was an opportunity to learn something cool (mathematical theory behind cryptography, assembly language, details of a processor, the cache, or a communication protocol) or useful, it was glanced over as 'technical details'. Instead, I was introduced to many, many small topics (programming, graphics, databases, algorithms, user…

Most developers don't appreciate how big of a difference there can be between different schools with regards to their computing science programs. I picked a pretty good school and we got in depth with assembly, graphics, databases, functional programming, etc. In my time there, I wrote my own programming language and VM, a working raytracer, a neutral net project, and much more. I appreciate having a good solid base…

> Most developers don't appreciate how big of a difference there can be between different schools with regards to their computing science programs.

The same is true of EE programs. My degree is in EE with CE emphasis but work as a SE now. I've interviewed a number of EE background folks from well known schools and it's very clear they had a completely different experience than I did. Their experience was much less rigorous in terms of the physics/mathematics involved.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science?

#169

Post by freyr »

ken47 wrote: post #124
johan_larson wrote: post #84

I would guess the issue is prestige. Software development, like engineering in general, is not a top-tier profession in the US. The actually top-tier professions are doctor, lawyer, and banker/financier. Software developers, like accountants, are well paid but second-tier in status, geeks who worry about the details rather than distinguished professionals who call the shots. Interestingly, the three professions I men…

I disagree. The things you say may have been true decades ago, but are not entirely accurate today. The US's banking industry's reputation took a big hit in 2008, and it has become increasingly common for top university students to head into tech over finance since then. Not to mention, firms like Goldman Sachs are replacing many of their traditional traders with software engineers. Outside of top law schools, the pr…

Finance may have taken a hit recently, but if you're in the northeast (NYC, Boston, etc.), it still has much higher prestige. It also has a much, much higher compensation ceiling.

The same goes for lawyers working in cities. Many law students are underemployed, but overall there's a much higher compensation ceiling.

Management consultants weren't mentioned, but a large percentage of top grads end up there, being groomed for executive positions in Fortune 500 companies.

Many of the Ivey League students gravitating to tech are likely envisioning themselves as founders or C-suite executives, not engineers. Outside of the SV bubble, software engineer is not a top-tier job. Nor is it a particularly well paying job. In SV though, it has prestige.

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