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Tech giants Elon Musk, Sam Altman push universal basic income concept

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Re: Tech giants Elon Musk, Sam Altman push universal basic income concept

#11

Post by flavor8 »

niceperson wrote: post #2

UBI is not the solution. The fact that someone else might be in need does not give him any right to my money, or time. Forced social welfare programs ignore this. UBI does not reduce the negative imapct of these programs, but actually enforces and concretizes them and the mentality of "social debt" and "inherent social debt" (both do not exist) by declaring every citizen equally guilty. UBI sounds nice on paper becau…

Ai is on a course to put 30% of the population out of work. These people need to be supported or there will be massive social unrest.

Re: Tech giants Elon Musk, Sam Altman push universal basic income concept

#12

Post by posterboy »

gdulli wrote: post #5
niceperson wrote: post #2

UBI is not the solution. The fact that someone else might be in need does not give him any right to my money, or time. Forced social welfare programs ignore this. UBI does not reduce the negative imapct of these programs, but actually enforces and concretizes them and the mentality of "social debt" and "inherent social debt" (both do not exist) by declaring every citizen equally guilty. UBI sounds nice on paper becau…

Your "right" not to be murdered is only a construct. We've decided it's a good one, and our society is better when people don't have to worry (much) about being murdered. We might also decide that our society is better when people have a "right" to food, shelter, and health care. Those rights would be contrivances like the ones you already take for granted. But that's not an argument for or against them.

So by your account, a >>"right" to food, shelter and health careuniversal right (to Basic Income).

So there have to be arguments and he's giving one, that this proposal is hardly going to be afforded by those in the position to do so. Which part of the actual argument do you disagree with? It seem you are saying the workers would have to want to afford it (because its a positive right), but you don't actually show it.

Re: Tech giants Elon Musk, Sam Altman push universal basic income concept

#13

Post by posterboy »

flavor8 wrote: post #11
niceperson wrote: post #2

UBI is not the solution. The fact that someone else might be in need does not give him any right to my money, or time. Forced social welfare programs ignore this. UBI does not reduce the negative imapct of these programs, but actually enforces and concretizes them and the mentality of "social debt" and "inherent social debt" (both do not exist) by declaring every citizen equally guilty. UBI sounds nice on paper becau…

Ai is on a course to put 30% of the population out of work. These people need to be supported or there will be massive social unrest.

Where did you draw that figure from?

Re: Tech giants Elon Musk, Sam Altman push universal basic income concept

#14

Post by djanatan »

posterboy wrote: post #13
flavor8 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ai is on a course to put 30% of the population out of work. These people need to be supported or there will be massive social unrest.

Where did you draw that figure from?

"Humans Need Not Apply" on YouTube is a good start.

Re: Tech giants Elon Musk, Sam Altman push universal basic income concept

#15

Post by [deleted] »

skybrian wrote: post #6
Overtonwindow wrote: post #3

How's this sound for a UBI scheme: Companies - including banks - with more than $2 million in annual profits will be taxed 90%. Individuals with more than $5 million in assets, cash, stock, bonds, and other investments, will be taxed at 85%. This would adequately pay for such a system that Messirs Altman, Musk, and Zuckerburg desire. Facebook 2016 net income was $1.56 billion. Their tax bill would have been $1.404 bi…

If you're rich and pushing UBI, that probably means that you'd be willing to pay significantly higher taxes, or why would you do it? That doesn't mean you have to be a sucker and do it unilaterally when nobody has to do it. It's a collective action problem.

[deleted]

Re: Tech giants Elon Musk, Sam Altman push universal basic income concept

#16

Post by [deleted] »

aianus wrote: post #10
candiodari wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the basic problem with such a scheme: If you do that, you kill 99%+ of the value of those companies. Those profits pay first and foremost for the pension of mostly ordinary Americans. Worse: those people who's pensions your proposal would take away worked for those pensions for decades. Because of excessive government debt issuance, these pensions are already somewhere between in trouble and bankrupt, with a m…

You don't need to work more hours you just need better machines to make the average hour worked more productive. If the productivity went up 10% you could give everyone a UBI of 10% of GDP without any additional hours worked.

[deleted]

Re: Tech giants Elon Musk, Sam Altman push universal basic income concept

#17

Post by [deleted] »

aianus wrote: post #10
candiodari wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the basic problem with such a scheme: If you do that, you kill 99%+ of the value of those companies. Those profits pay first and foremost for the pension of mostly ordinary Americans. Worse: those people who's pensions your proposal would take away worked for those pensions for decades. Because of excessive government debt issuance, these pensions are already somewhere between in trouble and bankrupt, with a m…

You don't need to work more hours you just need better machines to make the average hour worked more productive. If the productivity went up 10% you could give everyone a UBI of 10% of GDP without any additional hours worked.

[deleted]

Re: Tech giants Elon Musk, Sam Altman push universal basic income concept

#18

Post by sidegrid »

anon46373 wrote: post #8

I "live" (not starve but that's all) in a Vanagon in SV on ~$300/month on GA, SNAP and Medical (Medicaid). I can barely afford two required medications that I copay out of pocket (Walgreens), and the price of the expensive one just jumped from $22.50 to $38. Can't afford auto repairs, can't anything entertaining that involves money, replacing anything should something break or saving for emergencies much less retirem…

What do you do all day if you aren't working?

Re: Tech giants Elon Musk, Sam Altman push universal basic income concept

#19

Post by mempko »

niceperson wrote: post #2

UBI is not the solution. The fact that someone else might be in need does not give him any right to my money, or time. Forced social welfare programs ignore this. UBI does not reduce the negative imapct of these programs, but actually enforces and concretizes them and the mentality of "social debt" and "inherent social debt" (both do not exist) by declaring every citizen equally guilty. UBI sounds nice on paper becau…

Where does "your" money come from? What is money and why was it invented? Answering these questions will require some research. And no, the barter story isn't real, or based on any facts.

Re: Tech giants Elon Musk, Sam Altman push universal basic income concept

#20

Post by mempko »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #3

How's this sound for a UBI scheme: Companies - including banks - with more than $2 million in annual profits will be taxed 90%. Individuals with more than $5 million in assets, cash, stock, bonds, and other investments, will be taxed at 85%. This would adequately pay for such a system that Messirs Altman, Musk, and Zuckerburg desire. Facebook 2016 net income was $1.56 billion. Their tax bill would have been $1.404 bi…

UBI won't require tax increases. The government can just deficit spend. I'm more in favor of a guaranteed job program. Also UBI is really a market solution which raises prices. I would rather see more welfare and non market oriented help.
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