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Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

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Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically the same theory as trickle down economics. I thought Harvard wouldn't be pushing that any more.

There is no actual theory of trickle down economics. This is a derogatory term used as a distraction from discussing real economics.

Would it not be...

This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

+

The assertion that the peak of this curve is skewed towards the left (low tax rates), rather than the right (high rates)?

That is, that if the "job creators" don't keep enough of the margin on goods produced, they will just get pissed off, take their marbles and go home, rather than actually bothering to hire a few more people to grab additional marginal income?

The way the Laffer Curve was usually presented, was to give one the impression that there were marginal tax rates so high that they were somehow greater than 100% and ate into income earned at a lower marginal rate, which would otherwise have been retained had there been less of it.

Thus, "trickle down" being the idea that when the rich have more money, they will for some reason voluntarily use it to hire people to produce products and services, regardless of whether or not there is any actual demand, or anticipated demand, for them.

Yes, a marginal tax rate of 110% would be bad. Good thing we don't do that :-) (I guess I should be ready for some example from 1880 where combined locality through federal taxes did for some specific dollar amount - but hopefully such freaky exceptions don't really exist, or at least often enough to matter)

Edit: I realize that the Laffer Curve was primarily about tax revenues, BUT, a large component of the theory was that as the activity increased to generate the tax revenues, it was due to somebody doing the work that created the additional earnings.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no actual theory of trickle down economics. This is a derogatory term used as a distraction from discussing real economics.

Would it not be... This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve + The assertion that the peak of this curve is skewed towards the left (low tax rates), rather than the right (high rates)? That is, that if the "job creators" don't keep enough of the margin on goods produced, they will just get pissed off, take their marbles and go home, rather than actually bothering to hire a few more people to grab additional ma…

There is a common misconception of the Laffer curve that is based on trying to interpret the data. However, what the Laffer curve demonstrates is that there is a curve, nothing else.

Please note that I do not consider anything from Wikipedia as evidence of anything, so if you are trying to get me to respond to something to do within a Wikipedia article, it just isn't going to happen. The number of times I have discovered serious issues with those articles, especially on political, philosophical, and academic topics is, frankly, disturbing.

There is a theory within some economic schools of thought that savings generates production, but this is not directly to do with tax rates or the Laffer curve, nor even rich people.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The military tech is actually useful - many of the things we use today as ubiquitous was an artifact of military. It's definitely not the same thing as digging down holes. However, what i do not know is how much of US military spending is on R&D

But why not just invest in those things directly? Example: GPS was invented by the military. But you could have a different government organization work on all the useful stuff that comes out of the military that has nothing to do with blowing people up. You could also argue that if you invest trillions of dollars into digging holes, that might result in useful technology. Taking the example of GPS, maybe you need to…

I think it comes to needs.

Military needs a way to position vehicles, you get gps, same goed for arpanet. A good chunk of military inventions are done by civilians on military funding.

I think it is the desire in US military to be always on the bleeding edge, and the accountability that it brings. There is also less pressure for profit, I guess.

You said digging holes, elon musk is doing that boring job :)

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#124
post #79

"I don't understand why this comment is being down voted." Because most readers on hackernews are left wing idiots and teenagers? "Germany has managed to suppress the value of its currency" Actually, Germany did not suppess it's currency. But France basically insisted it gives up the "Deutsche Mark" in exchange for the reunification. This had the, in back-sight obvious but at that time unexpected side effect, that ot…

Since we asked you repeatedly not to break the HN guidelines and you've continued to do it repeatedly, we've banned this account.

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14434886 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The Hartz IV reforms that added flexibility for companies The Hartz reforms suppressed wages and made the average German poorer: https://ideas.repec.org/a/wej/wldecn/557.html Germany's industrial success was evident years before they went into effect. Hartz is like trickle down economics and a lower minimum wage: the wealthy have good reason to love it and the wealthy will make up spurious reasons why you should lov…

Since you used the phrase "trickle down economics" as if it were a formal economic theory, I discount every thing you stated because you don't understand the phrases you are using.

This sort of personal attack will get your account banned on HN, so please don't do it again. Ditto for uncivil swipes like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14435509.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#126

Rarely mentioned is the fact that post-war Germany turned to free markets, hence the "German Miracle". This persisted until 1970 or so, when the German economy turned significantly towards socialism and big government.

It seems they did well both before and after 1970. So???

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#127
post #109
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a failure of tax & estate planning. If you wait until you are very old to give away your assets you are putting yourself in the pay-the-most-inheritance-tax position. If the daughters had been running the business for decades already, they would have had lots of time to shift the ownership. This isn't an argument against inheritance tax, it's an argument for better education about personal finances.

So you're saying it this is not an example against inheritance tax because the family could've used loopholes in the legislation to circumvent paying the tax?

[deleted]

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#128
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Saying German success is mostly based on the Euro is a great narrative but completely ignores the reality that Germany's economy was already strong and getting stronger in the decades before that." Which part of "it wasn't just the Euro, reunification had the same effect" was I unclear about?

> Which part of "it wasn't just the Euro, reunification had the same effect" was I unclear about? West Germany was before the Euro and before the reunification economically strong. It was the world's largest exporter in 1986, 1987, 1988 and 1990. Around 1960 Germany was already second largest exporter in the world. Reunification was in October 1990.

As far as I was aware it happened in the early-mid 90s:

http://savingusmanufacturing.com/blog/general/how-did-german...

"Germany surpassed the United States to become the world’s leading exporter in 1992, around the time that Germany joined the European Union as a founding member."

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#129
post #108
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany exported a lot and imported a lot. Germany exports more than it imports, at least since the 60s. > But recently this had led to the absurd situation, that Germany exports both, goods AND capital Not recently. Happened already in the 70s and 80s. The decade after reunification was unusual. Starting with 2001 Germany was back exporting capital.

Did you bother clicking the link? No.

Sure. The graphic is misleading, since it is not adjusted to GDP - thus it does not show the proportions of exports in relation to the size of the economy.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it not be... This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve + The assertion that the peak of this curve is skewed towards the left (low tax rates), rather than the right (high rates)? That is, that if the "job creators" don't keep enough of the margin on goods produced, they will just get pissed off, take their marbles and go home, rather than actually bothering to hire a few more people to grab additional ma…

There is a common misconception of the Laffer curve that is based on trying to interpret the data. However, what the Laffer curve demonstrates is that there is a curve, nothing else. Please note that I do not consider anything from Wikipedia as evidence of anything, so if you are trying to get me to respond to something to do within a Wikipedia article, it just isn't going to happen. The number of times I have discov…

Thus, the "+". The article is fair in that regard - it's just an abstract curve, with no exact formula, let alone coefficients. In practice, though, when somebody brings up Laffer, they are going to claim constants that generate a curve that peaks with a low tax rate.

In one sense, you are likely right: there is probably no formal academic theory of "supply side economics. But we have been subject to hearing this interrelated line of argument over and over since Reagan.

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