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Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

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Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically the same theory as trickle down economics. I thought Harvard wouldn't be pushing that any more.

There is no actual theory of trickle down economics. This is a derogatory term used as a distraction from discussing real economics.

Colloquial use of theory usually means concept or hypothesis.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#82
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (most of Germany's industrial capability had been destroyed or damaged) Tony Judt in Post War ( https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29658.Postwar ) actually claims that this is patently false. That Germany actually came out of WW2 with most of its industry intact (it was away from the most bombed cities and majority of fighting actually happened in France/Poland/USSR) and was in significantly better shape than Frac…

if Germany had more intact pre-WWII industrial sites than is commonly portrayed, that makes the original question even more interesting. how did German industry become, and remain, so competitive in the first place? the US also had intact industrial sites after WWII, but its middle class job base has not been so well preserved in the face of recent global competition.

May have something to do with taxes and maybe more effective use of public funds? Germans are taxed at higher rates (and more importantly, lower thresholds for higher rates) compared to the US or UK, so the distribution seems more even, allowing a larger middle class.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#83
post #11

Wow, that's a pretty appalling article. Seems to avoid even mentioning the desire of most of Europe to try and learn from what went wrong after the Great War. In 1918-1930 Germany was left so weakened by peace treaties that the seeds were sown for WW2. Post-WW2 the allies felt that a Germany crippled would only bring future wars, and a huge co-ordinated effort to build a sustainable industry and economic growth was p…

There is also a surprising lack of mention about trade unions, work councils and worker voting rights in companies.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#84
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard the argument that, with high inheritance taxes, the heir of a family-owned company has to sell parts or all of the business in order to pay the tax. I don't know enough about the issue to say whether there is some truth to it.

The one direct exposure I have had to the issue of inheritance tax was with a small Midwest-based distributor. The owner was very old and wanted to pass the company to his daughters, who had actually been running the business for decades (and when I came along, his granddaughters were working the office). His issue was that what the government decided his business to be worth could only be paid with more cash than hi…

The owner could have gifted a small interest in the company to each daughter, grand-daughter, and perhaps their spouses in each year of those decades, letting subsequent value growth and inflation accrue to the surviving family members.

And also, perhaps transformed the company ownership structure into a limited partnership as well, claiming a lower market value for the shares owned by limited partners.

tl;dr: First rule of US estate planning: Die broke.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#85
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason so many of the mid-sized market leaders come from Germany can be traced back to post-WW2 policies to ensure that Europe could be at peace. Some of these policies were undoubtedly exploitative in the short term, but long term have achieved their goal. Hilariously, the Volkswagen designs (The Type 1/Beetle), factories, etc. were actually offered as a free war reparation to both the US and to Britain. Howev…

There is no guarantee that under different management the same success would have resulted. So blunder?

Although I'd agree that the Volkswagen Group as a whole may not be the same as it is today if it were under different management...

...it remains that passing up a robust, reliable, and simple car design -- and the factories/tooling to produce it -- for an acquisition cost of zero is still a blunder.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no actual theory of trickle down economics. This is a derogatory term used as a distraction from discussing real economics.

Colloquial use of theory usually means concept or hypothesis .

Okay, there is no formal concept or hypothesis of trickle down economics. (However, most PhD economists use the phrase "economic theory," but you may have some insight into this that they have not yet been exposed to.)

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#87

Perhaps this means Germany could suffer disproportionately as a result of automation. It's also worth pointing out that Germany is not immune to global trends that may erode the ability to sell based on quality - I recently bought a 2001 BMW E39, thought by many to be the best BMW ever made. In fixing up the E39 I've come across the same opinion over and over again: BMWs/German cars in general are not as well made as…

Maybe you were thinking of the E36? :D

Many say the 1984-1994 Mercedes E-klasse was the last car that was built to last. Afterwards, they switched to cheaper parts, less overengineering, to keep up with competitors and profit more from planned obsolescence.

Personally, I've seen many of them break down, and they rust quite badly if not maintained :)

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#88
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (most of Germany's industrial capability had been destroyed or damaged) Tony Judt in Post War ( https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29658.Postwar ) actually claims that this is patently false. That Germany actually came out of WW2 with most of its industry intact (it was away from the most bombed cities and majority of fighting actually happened in France/Poland/USSR) and was in significantly better shape than Frac…

Yeah, GDR doesn't mean what you think it means.

Ack, yeah, I meant western germany (FRG/BDR) not eastern :)

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#89
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one direct exposure I have had to the issue of inheritance tax was with a small Midwest-based distributor. The owner was very old and wanted to pass the company to his daughters, who had actually been running the business for decades (and when I came along, his granddaughters were working the office). His issue was that what the government decided his business to be worth could only be paid with more cash than hi…

The owner could have gifted a small interest in the company to each daughter, grand-daughter, and perhaps their spouses in each year of those decades, letting subsequent value growth and inflation accrue to the surviving family members. And also, perhaps transformed the company ownership structure into a limited partnership as well, claiming a lower market value for the shares owned by limited partners. tl;dr: First…

I asked the same question, and his response was, "do you really think the government hasn't thought of that already?"

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#90
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how/whether increasing the defense budget would help the German economy. Let me just say right away, that I am in no way advocating for increasing the supply of arms and ammunition in the world, which already seems to be at dangerous levels. However, if Germany invested as much in military R&D and a domestic arms industry, I wonder if that would boost the economy as it has done in the US. Also, the immigrati…

This is the broken window fallacy. Every dollar spent "investing" in military r&d, Is one less dollar that can be invested elsewhere. Why not just invest all that money directly into the economy instead of doing it in an extremely roundabout way. Or, I don't know, just pay people to dig holes and fill them back up again, if you believe in the idea of economic "stimulus".

Sometimes space and military programs will produce technology that later becomes commercially very useful, eg, Raytheon and the microwave oven (First introduced Radarange 1946 - and Amana made a more generally consumable model in 1967). The whole "dig holes and fill them up again" was wonderfully covered in Orwell,1984.. The noble version of this would be Space Exploration, search for unlimited energy (eg, fusion), or cancer cures. The military industrial complex speech given by a sitting US president, Eisenhower, here - http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/eisenhower001.asp - more or less predicted that the 1984-style approach to perpetual state of war will be taken unless big changes were made.

"War, it will be seen, accomplishes the necessary destruction, but accomplishes it in a psychologically acceptable way. In principle it would be quite simple to waste the surplus labour of the world by building temples and pyramids, by digging holes and filling them up again, or even by producing vast quantities of goods and then setting fire to them. But this would provide only the economic and not the emotional basis for a hierarchical society. What is concerned here is not the morale of masses, whose attitude is unimportant so long as they are kept steadily at work, but the morale of the Party itself. Even the humblest Party member is expected to be competent, industrious, and even intelligent within narrow limits, but it is also necessary that he should be a credulous and ignorant fanatic whose prevailing moods are fear, hatred, adulation, and orgiastic triumph. In other words it is necessary that he should have the mentality appropriate to a state of war. It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going well or badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist. The splitting of the intelligence which the Party requires of its members, and which is more easily achieved in an atmosphere of war, is now almost universal, but the higher up the ranks one goes, the more marked it becomes. It is precisely in the Inner Party that war hysteria and hatred of the enemy are strongest. In his capacity as an administrator, it is often necessary for a member of the Inner Party to know that this or that item of war news is untruthful, and he may often be aware that the entire war is spurious and is either not happening or is being waged for purposes quite other than the declared ones: but such knowledge is easily neutralized by the technique of doublethink. Meanwhile no Inner Party member wavers for an instant in his mystical belief that the war is real, and that it is bound to end victoriously, with Oceania the undisputed master of the entire world. "

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