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Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

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Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#61
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A significant part of the Mittelklasse is certainly part of the car industry. Maybe BMW, Audi, etc are not that keen on acquiring?

In the US, the big three automakers generally don't acquire small companies. A lot of work in the industry is done by companies like Delphi (who also have sites in Germany)

IIRC, Delphi was spun off as a former division GM.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#62
Germany is a highly decentralized country. Maybe go and study in one of the metropolitan areas but then return to their beloved villages far away from the maddening crowds. In fact many of these hidden champions are in the "middle of nowhere" with often sub-par logistics (e.g. no immediate Autobahn or major train connection).

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#63
post #11

Wow, that's a pretty appalling article. Seems to avoid even mentioning the desire of most of Europe to try and learn from what went wrong after the Great War. In 1918-1930 Germany was left so weakened by peace treaties that the seeds were sown for WW2. Post-WW2 the allies felt that a Germany crippled would only bring future wars, and a huge co-ordinated effort to build a sustainable industry and economic growth was p…

Okay, first things- first - no lessons where learned, nobody out of the good of their hearts did anything for anybody. The original plan after world war 2 was to turn Nazi Germany into a agrarian border stripe between the two emerging power blocks.

This plan was put into action, and some starvation resulted from the dismantling and moving of the factories. The reason this changed is because the cold war tensions, made it necessary to bind the former enemy as a useful puppet and ally to each corresponding site. Thus west and east Germany got away with a blue eye for blundering and murdering east European countries and several minorities.

There is no moral here to be taken home with- maybe some tactical advice- if you want to stab and rob your neighbor - do it in the midst of a gang-shootout and then join in on the side nearby with the stolen goods and weapon.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#64

I think the most important factor has been missed: planned luck. All the countries (in Europe) who are having success today are the ones who had a crisis (each for a different reason) in the '90s and made structural reforms. During the crisis in the 2000s and 2010s, these countries (Sweden, Switzerland, Germany, etc.) were leaner, more flexible than their "competitors". Fun fact, most of these countries are protestan…

Max Weber has you covered: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the... However, the German economic powerhouses are the Southern states - all of which are predominantly Catholic

In Baden-Württemberg (the South Western state), 37% are catholic and 33% are part of the official evangelical church, with likely a few in smaller protestant groups. Likewise for franconia, which is mostly within the state of Bavaria.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#65
post #59
post #11

Wow, that's a pretty appalling article. Seems to avoid even mentioning the desire of most of Europe to try and learn from what went wrong after the Great War. In 1918-1930 Germany was left so weakened by peace treaties that the seeds were sown for WW2. Post-WW2 the allies felt that a Germany crippled would only bring future wars, and a huge co-ordinated effort to build a sustainable industry and economic growth was p…

> The reason so many of the mid-sized market leaders come from Germany can be traced back to post-WW2 policies to ensure that Europe could be at peace. Some of these policies were undoubtedly exploitative in the short term, but long term have achieved their goal. Hilariously, the Volkswagen designs (The Type 1/Beetle), factories, etc. were actually offered as a free war reparation to both the US and to Britain. Howev…

There is no guarantee that under different management the same success would have resulted. So blunder?

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#66
post #26
post #11

Wow, that's a pretty appalling article. Seems to avoid even mentioning the desire of most of Europe to try and learn from what went wrong after the Great War. In 1918-1930 Germany was left so weakened by peace treaties that the seeds were sown for WW2. Post-WW2 the allies felt that a Germany crippled would only bring future wars, and a huge co-ordinated effort to build a sustainable industry and economic growth was p…

> (most of Germany's industrial capability had been destroyed or damaged) Tony Judt in Post War ( https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29658.Postwar ) actually claims that this is patently false. That Germany actually came out of WW2 with most of its industry intact (it was away from the most bombed cities and majority of fighting actually happened in France/Poland/USSR) and was in significantly better shape than Frac…

if Germany had more intact pre-WWII industrial sites than is commonly portrayed, that makes the original question even more interesting. how did German industry become, and remain, so competitive in the first place?

the US also had intact industrial sites after WWII, but its middle class job base has not been so well preserved in the face of recent global competition.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#67
I think this is a big contributor:

A further pillar of the Hidden Champions’ competitive strength is the unique German dual system of apprenticeship, which combines practical and theoretical training in non-academic trades. The Hidden Champions invest 50% more in vocational training than the average German company.

I think a 4 year college degree does not make sense for a lot of jobs. It just puts students with more debt, and sometimes skills that don't lead to a job.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#68
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right and wrong at the same time. The DM was pretty strong and was used as a reserve currency in many european countries, that regularly devalued their respective currency. The current german export strength is based (at least, there may easily be more) on four factors: 1) The weak Euro. Personally, I hate it because the other european countries cannot compete with Germany. Historically, they would have deval…

>The Hartz IV reforms that added flexibility for companies The Hartz reforms suppressed wages and made the average German poorer: https://ideas.repec.org/a/wej/wldecn/557.html Germany's industrial success was evident years before they went into effect. Hartz is like trickle down economics and a lower minimum wage: the wealthy have good reason to love it and the wealthy will make up spurious reasons why you should lov…

Since you used the phrase "trickle down economics" as if it were a formal economic theory, I discount every thing you stated because you don't understand the phrases you are using.

Re: Why Germany Still Has So Many Middle-Class Manufacturing Jobs

#69
post #8

> Tax advantages are another reason. The high taxes on assets in France and the inheritance tax in the U.S. prevent the accumulation of capital necessary for the formation of a strong mid-sized sector. Really? How?

Ya this is propaganda (inheritance taxes affect mainly the very wealthy, not the lower and middle classes). Germany's real secret is that labor still has voting rights within corporations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codetermination_in_Germany

And actually if you look at the history of the United States, the civil rights movement depended on a strong labor sector. They don’t teach this in schools, but Martin Luther King, Jr was a threat to the establishment more for his emphasis on unifying workers than for breaking down racial barriers:

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2011/02/al...

The labor movements between WWII and Ronald Reagan’s election led to the US becoming the largest industrial superpower in the world, with some of the highest per capita incomes. The loss of unions and the decline of worker’s rights in the US (and accompanying stagnation of wages post-2000) coincide exactly with the loss of civil rights as we’ve moved to a more authoritarian society.

Things like the loss of habeas corpus under GW Bush and Obama just blow my mind, and I think if the electorate knew what was really going on they would not elect the people they do. But they don’t, that’s why capitalists have traditionally pushed for the privatization of public schools and funding propaganda (infotainment) to preserve the echo chamber. The more striated, divided and polarized a society is, the more wealth can be concentrated in fewer hands. Older nations like Germany have a better handle on this because they’ve seen it repeated in history so many times and are more aware of the dangers of unilateral thinking and monarchy. Inclusivity has paid off handsomely for them.

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