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View Counting at Reddit

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Re: View Counting at Reddit

#41
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional forum style sorting just sorts for controversiality. Posts that generate heated discussion will continue to push their way to the top. This is okay but it means that non controversial stories will not make it to the top, which is honestly one of the largest benefits of news aggregator sites.

How about, here and on reddit, being able to mark threads you're interested in, and having a page where you can see those sorted by last reply. On HN, make that page refresh every 15 or 60 minutes or whatever. Heck, once every 24 hours would be enough... sometimes I just want to talk about the things that interest me, with the people that are interested in them. I would love to be able to think on something for a few…

I completely agree that a large problem with news aggregator sites is that you must be there right when the news hits. Eventually in the HN algo, time always dominates score and the discussion is killed no matter how interesting it was.

To be honest, I think that a change in behavior needs to come from the website, top down, rather than allowing the community to opt in to an alternate scheme that will never hit the popularity threshold necessary to work. Like a sibling mentioned, Reddit has "newest", but because it's not on by default, no one bothers to use it.

I don't think that it's our attention spans that cause our browsing behaviors on aggregator sites- I think it's purely derived from the Ui/Ux of the site, and that if the site kept interesting conversations up longer, people would participate and have more than the surface-level reflexive remarks we see here. This is not just a hypothesis - we can see the alternate behavior born out on forum sites. I think it's a huge shame that HN has opted for this model (especially when it wants to be "the better news aggregator"). Think how many great conversations never happened here because the algorithm prematurely killed the thread - due to lack of upvotes or something else.

Re: View Counting at Reddit

#43
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A votebot suspects that it is being detected and filtered out of the final scores. Because the scores fluctuate, it is harder to determine if your vote had an impact.

But that doesn't "prevent spambots etc.", that merely prevents people from easily and instantly figuring out whether their bots are detected yet. It doesn't stop them from spamming votes, or from making their bots more elaborate regardless of whether they have been detected yet. I don't know all the motivations for spam bots or how people who make them tick, but I'd figure for a significant number the crucial bit is…

"There's no silver bullet." --Fred Brooks

Re: View Counting at Reddit

#44
post #9

I love the article on hyperloglog! It is really quite good to read even if you're not interested in algorithms. I always liked number theory and I think that it's very interesting that you can guess how many uniques there are by counting how long your longest run of zeroes in a hash is. I suppose this could be broken by injecting in a unique visitor id that would hash to something with an absurd amount of zeroes? Tha…

You are correct, but HyperLogLog has many buckets counting the longest run of zeros in order to avoid the problem of outliers. I recently studied these probabilistic algorithms and did a notebook with code and plots to show their performance: https://github.com/lucasschmidtc/Probabilistic-Algorithms/bl...

Thanks for sharing that!

Just skimmed through it and seems pretty interesting. I'll read it more in depth later.

Re: View Counting at Reddit

#45
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional forum style sorting just sorts for controversiality. Posts that generate heated discussion will continue to push their way to the top. This is okay but it means that non controversial stories will not make it to the top, which is honestly one of the largest benefits of news aggregator sites.

How about, here and on reddit, being able to mark threads you're interested in, and having a page where you can see those sorted by last reply. On HN, make that page refresh every 15 or 60 minutes or whatever. Heck, once every 24 hours would be enough... sometimes I just want to talk about the things that interest me, with the people that are interested in them. I would love to be able to think on something for a few…

Reddit allows you to save threads to revisit and you can sort by latest replies.

Re: View Counting at Reddit

#47

Slightly OT; but I wish reddit would use traditional forum style replies to push threads up, instead of the positive feedback loop of votes with opinions that agree with majority getting upvotes giving views which give proportionally more upvotes

Sadly, none of those older methods scale to above a few thousand users. It very quickly devolves into a huge chaotic mess.

Re: View Counting at Reddit

#48
So how do they determine whether a user has viewed a post already? I would think that unique counting is accomplished using the hyperloglog counter, but the article says that this decision is made by the Nazar system, which doesn't use the hyperloglog counter in Redis.

Re: View Counting at Reddit

#49
So how do they determine whether a user has viewed a post already? I would think that unique counting is accomplished using the hyperloglog counter, but the article says that this decision is made by the Nazar system, which doesn't use the hyperloglog counter in Redis.

Re: View Counting at Reddit

#50

Given how much simpler it is to count total views than unique user views, why is it more valuable to count unique user views?

From a Reddit engineer:

"This was a product decision. Currently view counts are purely cosmetic, but we did not want to rule out the possibility of them being used in ranking in the future. As such, building in some degree of abuse protection made sense (e.g. someone can't just sit on a page refreshing to make the view number go up). I am fully expecting us to tweak this time window (and the duplication heuristics in general) in future, especially as the way that users interact with content will change as Reddit evolves."

https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6da6n9/comment...

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