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Storing Drinking-Water in Copper Pots Kills Contaminating Bacteria (2012)

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Re: Storing Drinking-Water in Copper Pots Kills Contaminating Bacteria (2012)

#31

Post by DanBC »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #28

Silver is also known to have antibacterial/antimicrobial properties and is used both as a coating on handles, surfaces to prevent bacterial buildup and also in typical creams as an antibacterial option (however, I do believe a recent study showed it to be no better than a control when applied topically to burns, which is/was one of its primary uses). Both copper and silver oxidize unpleasantly very quickly, though.

These clinicians do a nice summary of what they think the evidence is: http://www.woundsinternational.com/media/issues/567/files/co...

That's an old document, and I'd be interested if there's anything newer.

Re: Storing Drinking-Water in Copper Pots Kills Contaminating Bacteria (2012)

#32

Post by sndean »

ashwinpp wrote: post #29
sndean wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about copper pots specifically, but Wikipedia has a reference suggesting 1893 [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_properties_of_co...

Thanks. Should have googled. However, upon closer inspection, it seems like there was a wave of research during 1960s which looked at Copper ion concentration between 0.02 - 10g/L In the 2000s there was another wave of research looking at antimicrobial properties, however sampling a few of them, it does seem like they were seen as growing surfaces rather than containers for water purification. So, I guess it was obse…

> it does seem like they were seen as growing surfaces rather than containers for water purification.

> So, I guess it was observed for a long time, scientifically studied fairly recently, and not in particular whether it was viable in a practical setting?

It's pretty likely that no one really looked into the antimicrobial properties of copper surfaces until the advent of biofilm research (essentially Bill Costerton's paper(s) [0][1]). Without that idea, there wasn't a way to talk about or study what was happening, and there was no funding.

So, yeah, the better studies would've come out around ~2000.

I don't see a very practical use for suspensions of copper compounds as antimicrobials (maybe topical treatments only), but lots of uses for copper surfaces.

[0] http://www.nature.com/nrmicro/journal/v12/n11/full/nrmicro33...

[1] http://jb.asm.org/content/194/24/6706.full

Re: Storing Drinking-Water in Copper Pots Kills Contaminating Bacteria (2012)

#33

Post by cat199 »

cyphar wrote: post #14
ashwinpp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and were proven long ago. Can you back up your claim?

First discovered in 1893. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligodynamic_effect There are a whole class of heavy metals that act as germicides.

For discovery.. (though not 'scientific').. Try 1500-2000 BC

https://www.copper.org/publications/newsletters/innovations/...

Re: Storing Drinking-Water in Copper Pots Kills Contaminating Bacteria (2012)

#34

Post by jessaustin »

LgWoodenBadger wrote: post #27
maxxxxx wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One study is abut storing water in copper pots and the other is about copper in drinking water. Does storing water in pots automatically mean that the copper goes into the water and if yes, how high is the concentration?

How is storing it in copper pots significantly different than "storing" it in the copper pipes prevalent in a majority of houses in the USA?

That's true for houses of a particular age and value. New stuff is all PEX, and has been for some time. Old enough houses would have been cast iron. Cheaper houses (mobile homes, for example) were all PVC for a long time.

I had to dig up and repair a sewer pipe yesterday, and was somewhat surprised to find that it was made of clay tile.

Re: Storing Drinking-Water in Copper Pots Kills Contaminating Bacteria (2012)

#35

Post by jessaustin »

Filligree wrote: post #18
Overtonwindow wrote: post #5

The antibacterial properties of copper are well known, and were proven long ago. I think this is just someone looking for something to research and write a paper on.

The problem with copper is, it's toxic to more or less everything. No, it isn't as bad as lead, and humans tolerate it far better than most organisms, but I'd still rather not ingest it.

The best treatment for wood exposed to the elements is copper-based. In USA, however, the requirements for treatment facilities have grown more and more onerous, so that it's fairly impossible to find such wood anymore.

Re: Storing Drinking-Water in Copper Pots Kills Contaminating Bacteria (2012)

#36

Post by Houshalter »

whatupmiked wrote: post #19
batter wrote: post #2

I will just leave it here in case someone will want to employ copper pots: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10383875

"Copper content (177±16 ppb) in water stored in copper pots was well within the permissible limits of the World Health Organization. Copper holds promise as a point-of-use solution for microbial purification of drinking-water, especially in developing countries."

Yeah but they didn't test waters of different ph levels. I'm not sure if that would be an issue though.

Re: Storing Drinking-Water in Copper Pots Kills Contaminating Bacteria (2012)

#37

Post by vram22 »

Using copper vessels to store water for drinking is somewhat common in parts of India. Seen it in Maharashtra.

Lead vessels were traditionally used (and may still be) to make certain dishes (like rasam, a watery lentil-based sour soup) in South India. No idea about any benefits or the reverse.

Update: Also, I've seen relatives of the previous generation to mine (in India), sometimes eating from silver plates. Not sure, but I think that may have been for some supposed health reason too (seeing sibling comment about silver reminded me of it).

Re: Storing Drinking-Water in Copper Pots Kills Contaminating Bacteria (2012)

#38

Post by fpgaminer »

jessaustin wrote: post #35
Filligree wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with copper is, it's toxic to more or less everything. No, it isn't as bad as lead, and humans tolerate it far better than most organisms, but I'd still rather not ingest it.

The best treatment for wood exposed to the elements is copper-based. In USA, however, the requirements for treatment facilities have grown more and more onerous, so that it's fairly impossible to find such wood anymore.

About a month or two ago here in California, I picked up a bunch of pressure treated 2x4s from Home Depot. They're copper-azole treated.

Re: Storing Drinking-Water in Copper Pots Kills Contaminating Bacteria (2012)

#39

Post by rainbowmverse »

jessaustin wrote: post #35
Filligree wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with copper is, it's toxic to more or less everything. No, it isn't as bad as lead, and humans tolerate it far better than most organisms, but I'd still rather not ingest it.

The best treatment for wood exposed to the elements is copper-based. In USA, however, the requirements for treatment facilities have grown more and more onerous, so that it's fairly impossible to find such wood anymore.

I treat regulations the same way I treat what seem to be illogical programming/engineering solutions. If I don't understand the problem well enough to know why the regulation/solution is the way it is, I have no business commenting on it until I do.

Re: Storing Drinking-Water in Copper Pots Kills Contaminating Bacteria (2012)

#40

Post by throwaway5752 »

vram22 wrote: post #37

Using copper vessels to store water for drinking is somewhat common in parts of India. Seen it in Maharashtra. Lead vessels were traditionally used (and may still be) to make certain dishes (like rasam, a watery lentil-based sour soup) in South India. No idea about any benefits or the reverse. Update: Also, I've seen relatives of the previous generation to mine (in India), sometimes eating from silver plates. Not sur…

Just as a PSA, lead in any quantity is toxic and particularly so for children. Copper, silver, and gold are in the same family of elements (group 11) and lead is in the carbon family. Very different characteristics.

edit: I should also note (since bringing up families of elements) that - supporting your anecdote - silver has known and studied antimicrobial properties (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16766878). Sadly it has been coopted by quacks, so there's also a lot of misinformation out there about it, too.

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