21–30 of 57 posts
Is playing go as a team something that people do? It seems unintuitive. I'd expect a team of 5 experts to play worse than one expert.
It is common. The Chinese commentator Gu Li mentioned pair game and team game. But I cannot find an English page about it. Here is a Chinese Wikipedia page. https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/zh-hans/团队围棋 FWIW, the five people team played with Ke Joe before the game and won (again, according to Gu Li.)
Wow, this must be what it feels like to be living on a parabolic curve...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMO, you're comparing from the wrong things. AlphaGo is good at playing Go specifically, sure. But AlphaGo was built by machine learning infra that is capable of doing more than just playing Go. Google's ML capabilities as a whole are the 10x developer.
I've once read someone comparing the energy efficeincy of the human brain compared to all the CPUs used by one of these neural networks. The human brain turned out to be more efficient by many orders of magnitude. Sadly I have no recollection of where I've read this.
I was suggesting more simply that the original comment talking about 10x developer wasn't referring to just AlphaGo.
Apparently it wasn't clear that I'm limiting my comments strictly to what's observable in the chat forum and not making sweeping statements about humans.
Though I suspect self-selection bias might also explain the downvotes. Of course everyone on HN is better than a machine, right?
And the brain itself may be. But is the average developer?
Is playing go as a team something that people do? It seems unintuitive. I'd expect a team of 5 experts to play worse than one expert.
Is there any research done to prove/disprove that groupthink is inherently worse compared to a single genius? (less risky behavior, so less risk/less reward??) Are we training AIs that will be safe, not bold independent thinkers?
0: https://www.wired.com/2016/03/two-moves-alphago-lee-sedol-re...
Is playing go as a team something that people do? It seems unintuitive. I'd expect a team of 5 experts to play worse than one expert.
Yes and no. I always said in Pair Go , that 1 bad idea is better than 2 good ones. But provided discussion, you can be a lot more thorough in consensus. Professional analyze and study games in groups, and some thing come out of that. I'd say overall the result is a game with no blunders , but no edge. Since you are sharing the blame of a loss, you are not as focused on winning as you are on not losing.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMO, you're comparing from the wrong things. AlphaGo is good at playing Go specifically, sure. But AlphaGo was built by machine learning infra that is capable of doing more than just playing Go. Google's ML capabilities as a whole are the 10x developer.
I've once read someone comparing the energy efficeincy of the human brain compared to all the CPUs used by one of these neural networks. The human brain turned out to be more efficient by many orders of magnitude. Sadly I have no recollection of where I've read this.
https://jacquesmattheij.com/another-way-of-looking-at-lee-se...
I thought this was supposed to be a few years away -- i.e beating Lee Sidol was impressive, but Lee wasn't nearly the top player in the world? Wow, this must be what it feels like to be living on a parabolic curve...
Sedol was beaten soundly -- 4/5 games. So this is an improvement, but not an exponential one.
Go is definitely conquered like chess was 1-2 decades ago.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've once read someone comparing the energy efficeincy of the human brain compared to all the CPUs used by one of these neural networks. The human brain turned out to be more efficient by many orders of magnitude. Sadly I have no recollection of where I've read this.
Luckily deep learning computers can directly use electricity produced from sources that don't compete with human nutrition or we'd be in for a very dark future.
Is playing go as a team something that people do? It seems unintuitive. I'd expect a team of 5 experts to play worse than one expert.
https://youtu.be/V-_Cu6Hwp5U?t=4h26m30s
There are other points in the commentary where they discuss some of the team's strategy, as well as their time management.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
At this point no one expect alphago would lose. So just have fun
I'd love to take this as far as possible. What happens if you allow the team to roll back decisions as they see they're at a disadvantage? How far away are we from an effectively unbeatable machine? Given what people can learn over time, can they learn to beat it?