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Chrome Won

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Re: Chrome Won

#421

Post by jerf »

vanderZwan wrote: post #382
nialv7 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, all browsers currently on market are energy hogs and use massive amount of memory. God I miss the old Opera....

I do wonder how much of that is the browser's fault, and how much is because of website developers not understanding that we have a website obesity problem[0], nor the concept of "optimizing for fan noise"[1]. I'm fairly conscientious about this myself since I'm working on plotting data, and the dumb client-side number crunching involved is actually pretty good at eating CPU cycles. Most plotting libraries want to sh…

"I do wonder how much of that is the browser's fault, and how much is because of website developers not understanding that we have a website obesity problem[0], nor the concept of "optimizing for fan noise"[1]."

I think some of it is also that the web has numerous things about it that are fundamentally expensive operations, going back to things like "the default table sizing algorithm reacts to the flow of the content within it, which also depends on how the table decides to format it". It's not hard to create a pure HTML page that has no interesting images or scripts or anything, but still is fundamentally slow to render. (You probably wouldn't want to write it by hand, but I've accidentally written programs that output such pages over the years.)

Re: Chrome Won

#422

Post by solidr53 »

flerchin wrote: post #361
nocman wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got any hard data on that (seriously, I'd like to know)? I don't know anyone who does banking on their phone -- it's all desktop. Granted, I haven't taken a formal survey or anything.

None that I can share, but my source is the major US bank's software that I work on. More than two thirds of our traffic is handled on mobile devices now.

Can also confirm, worked for two banks and their mobile traffic (apps) surpassed desktop usage.

Re: Chrome Won

#423

Post by AmIFirstToThink »

MBCook wrote: post #61
gkoberger wrote: post #51

I agree with this blog post. But I don't think Mozilla lost. I worked for Mozilla for a few years, after seeing John Lily (CEO at the time) speak. It was right after Chrome started getting popular, and a smug person in the crowd asked him about how he felt about Chrome. John's response was awesome. "This is the web that we wanted. We exist not because we want everyone to use Firefox, but because we wanted people to h…

The problem is we're moving extremely fast to a chrome only world. If it wasn't for corporate sites and the success of the iPhone chrome would probably be dominating the way IE used to. I definitely run into sites that only work on chrome and not in any other browser. In my opinion chrome isn't doing a good job either. It's a massive energy hog and waste more CPU than it needs to. Unlike IE and FireFox and Safari it…

>The problem is we're moving extremely fast to a chrome only world.

May be.

I see this as truly the case of making the pie bigger.

All devices include 2 Billion Android devices. That's a bigger pie that Chrome owns now, but FireFox can target in future.

Re: Chrome Won

#424

Post by emiliobumachar »

zzbzq wrote: post #394
andrepd wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We cannot possibly be talking about the same Google. This is the Google of AMP et al. You think they won't do the exact same thing Microsoft did with IE when they find themselves in a similar dominant/monopolistic position in the market? You're sorely mistaken. We already find many examples of websites and Web apps that work only on chrome or the chrome "web store". This not to mention the surveillance and privacy nu…

Nah, it's different. Google's evil is directly on the opposite side of the coin from their generosity. Google essentially "wastes" money just to promote the web itself. This is because the web is a fairly terrible platform, but they must promote it because they've capitalized on its flaws. If the internet exploded and we had to rebuild it from the ground up, there would be no html/web, and no 3rd party search engine…

In your hypothetical from-scratch internet, there's probably still a confy place for Google's flagship search engine. It's the ranking, it has always been the ranking. Nobody is interested in a rank of who paid the most for each keyword.

Re: Chrome Won

#425

Post by pythonaut_16 »

campuscodi wrote: post #265
zacmps wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome is improving on the resource usage front. It's far from perfect but it's getting better. As for privacy you could use the open source chromium, there's a fork somewhere which has all the Google removed.

"getting better" ?!?! Chrome using less resources than Firefox and IE was their sales pitch. Now they've become what they made fun of, while Firefox is smooth as a baby's butt.

Chrome being faster and less bloated was their sales pitch. Keep in mind that Chrome came out as a counterpoint to IE and Firefox in what was then still a very desktop centered market. No one was talking about battery life back then. The solution to battery life on laptops was to create better power profiles, lower powered hardware, and shove in bigger batteries.

Chrome is still a huge improvement compared to the browsers it was competing against. Chrome changed the market and now the other browsers are competing in the world Chrome created. So while Chrome might fall behind in some areas now, it's naive to say that it's become what they made fun of.

Re: Chrome Won

#426

Post by bobajeff »

JoshMnem wrote: post #208
taf2 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is chrome is an open source browser with a lot of really smart people working to make it better everyday . IE, was none of theses things when Firefox came into the market. You also have to remember many of the core developers who built Firefox went on to build Chrome. And then even many of developers that built IE went on to work on chrome. In 2007, they had pulled together an amazing team to kick off the b…

I don't think that monocultures are wise.

I think at this point monoculture is inevitable.

There are no new engines that aren't forks of existing engines aside from Servo which is still experimental.

Aside from EdgeHTML​ all the major browser engines are open source. It takes several years and lots of money to create a from scratch engine compatible with the majority of websites people visit.

There is no money made directly from the browser itself. All of the money is made from products or services around the browser. Which is not a viable model for anyone but the biggest companies.

Not enough people care about how unwise monocultures are. Network effects push people to the thing everyone else uses.

Re: Chrome Won

#427

Post by ry_ry »

vatotemking wrote: post #165
cies wrote: post #63

So Mozilla lost Firefox OS. And their browser share is smaller then Chrome, and then it was, but still top tier and winning from M$. I'm much less pessimistic. Besides a cross platform and extensible browser we see also the following coming out of Mozilla: * Rust, a modern low-level programming language with cutting edge "safety" build in at zero runt time cost, luring many system programmers. * Servo, tomorrow brows…

I know that HN loves Rust and at the risk of being burned at the stakes, i'd say Rust is overrated. Lets get real, it doesn't have that many users, its not even on top of TIOBE. If you are going to start a career in Rust, good luck finding any jobs. I saw maybe one or 2 in the past, and it requires knowledge of C/C++ anyways. You might say, "its new language give it a break" but I bet Kotlin will overtake it by the e…

If it gains any meaningful traction, I'm kinda expecting WebAssembly will make Rust a useful additional language for web devs currently working with stuff like C#, Python or JS.

It's definitely put it firmly on my radar as something to pick up recently, and since I don't already know C or C++ it feels like a good starting point.

Re: Chrome Won

#428

Post by Paul-ish »

bitexploder wrote: post #360
gkoberger wrote: post #51

I agree with this blog post. But I don't think Mozilla lost. I worked for Mozilla for a few years, after seeing John Lily (CEO at the time) speak. It was right after Chrome started getting popular, and a smug person in the crowd asked him about how he felt about Chrome. John's response was awesome. "This is the web that we wanted. We exist not because we want everyone to use Firefox, but because we wanted people to h…

About fighting for our privacy and 'someone' has to do it. >> We really need someone to fight for our privacy and neutrality. And I really believe that this could be Mozilla's swan song. I deeply care about privacy. I fight for privacy. I work in information security. Every day I help my customers write code a little more securely. I educate them about implementing end to end encrypted communication systems. I am slo…

I'm curious, why is quitting MacBooks good for privacy? I know a lot of people who say Apple may be bad for having a walled garden, but that they are great for privacy. That Apple's business model is selling hardware, not your secrets.

Re: Chrome Won

#429

Post by ShinTakuya »

hacalox wrote: post #292

I will not leave Firefox as long as I can keep working with it. I don't find any substantial difference when I compare it with Chrome, so for me is just a choice based on the Company behinds the product. Mozilla values and mine are aligned and I would like people to think more about the companies and less about the product. At the end that's what matter. What kind of Internet are you willing to see in 10 years? It ca…

I much prefer Chrome's dev tools to Firefox's. Besides that I'm with you, I use Firefox for everything else.

Re: Chrome Won

#430

Post by josefx »

zacmps wrote: post #87
MBCook wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is we're moving extremely fast to a chrome only world. If it wasn't for corporate sites and the success of the iPhone chrome would probably be dominating the way IE used to. I definitely run into sites that only work on chrome and not in any other browser. In my opinion chrome isn't doing a good job either. It's a massive energy hog and waste more CPU than it needs to. Unlike IE and FireFox and Safari it…

Chrome is improving on the resource usage front. It's far from perfect but it's getting better. As for privacy you could use the open source chromium, there's a fork somewhere which has all the Google removed.

The sad thing is you can't trust chromium since it takes effort to keep the Google out. We already had one black box DRM module sneak its way in via background download because the commits aren't checked for sneaky code.
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