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Jacque Fresco has died

nytimes.com

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Re: Jacque Fresco has died

#11

Post by staticelf »

xenu101 wrote: post #10
staticelf wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also pretty juiced up and into the venus project for a while until I realized nobody is interested in living in such a world. Then I gave up.

People are interested, they're just not interested in working towards it or giving up things for it. Fresco paints a gloomy picture of the now and the future, but the facts are that "on average", humans are living better lives than they ever have. This progress has not yet stopped. Hence, Fresco predicts we need to wait for the next "bust".

That assumes that there will be people remembering the venus project or even have the resources to fight for it at the correct time. Also, it assumes that humanity will survive the climate changes that are due.

I think we have taught ourselves that we rather suffer and keep things as they are rather than actually improving them in a radical way like in trying out new economic models.

Re: Jacque Fresco has died

#13

Post by afsina »

wavefunction wrote: post #4

>>Robert Murphy, an associate scholar at the Mises Institute, which promotes the teaching of Austrian economics, wrote in 2010 that idealists like Mr. Fresco were “wrong to blame our current dysfunctional world on capitalism or money per se.” Instead, Mr. Murphy wrote, if property rights were respected by all, “humanity would become fantastically wealthy.” I read this sort of claim by the 'serious and sober' and real…

I think this is the relevant piece:

https://mises.org/library/venus-needs-some-austrians

I think Murphy is quite right.

Re: Jacque Fresco has died

#14

Post by xenu101 »

staticelf wrote: post #11
xenu101 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are interested, they're just not interested in working towards it or giving up things for it. Fresco paints a gloomy picture of the now and the future, but the facts are that "on average", humans are living better lives than they ever have. This progress has not yet stopped. Hence, Fresco predicts we need to wait for the next "bust".

That assumes that there will be people remembering the venus project or even have the resources to fight for it at the correct time. Also, it assumes that humanity will survive the climate changes that are due. I think we have taught ourselves that we rather suffer and keep things as they are rather than actually improving them in a radical way like in trying out new economic models.

He believed himself that the chances are slim. We may well be headed for the next dark ages. I doubt we're going extinct though, unless we're literally turning this planet into Venus (put somewhat intended).

Re: Jacque Fresco has died

#15

Post by swalsh »

I think as a whole his vision is little too "non organic". I don't think society can be planned to the degree he wished. However disassembled there were some solid ideas, many of which are becoming realities today. He represents one of my favorite parts of the 50's and 60's. Which struck me as a time where people imagined that it was totally possible to just upend society, and rebuild it in a better way. The level of optimism where if you can accomplish only 20% of the vision, you've done something significant.

Re: Jacque Fresco has died

#16

Post by xenu101 »

afsina wrote: post #13
wavefunction wrote: post #4

>>Robert Murphy, an associate scholar at the Mises Institute, which promotes the teaching of Austrian economics, wrote in 2010 that idealists like Mr. Fresco were “wrong to blame our current dysfunctional world on capitalism or money per se.” Instead, Mr. Murphy wrote, if property rights were respected by all, “humanity would become fantastically wealthy.” I read this sort of claim by the 'serious and sober' and real…

I think this is the relevant piece: https://mises.org/library/venus-needs-some-austrians I think Murphy is quite right.

I quote:

"What I am arguing, then, is that in a truly free world, where we all respected each other's property, the rise in living standards would be analogous to our hypothetical boy who moves from the streets of Calcutta to the suburbs of Maine. In that fantastic world, giving someone a "free" heart surgery might be as cheap as giving someone a piece of gum in our current society."

His whole article is a huge non-sequitur and I'm deeply concerned that these "Austrians" are regarded as "experts" whereas someone like Fresco is considered a Don Quixote.

Re: Jacque Fresco has died

#17

Post by sebastianconcpt »

staticelf wrote: post #8
badminton1 wrote: post #7

While Mr. Fresco idea seems very reasonable, I think his mistake is attributing altruistic traits to everyone. Not everyone is altruistic. If there's a computer system governing everything, there will be a strong incentive to build bias into it, or use for mass surveillance or even tyranny. Then, there are aspects in which radial cities would not be good: - Epidemiology: you have everyone in this nice dome sharing ob…

Would be worth a try though, wouldn't it? The main idea is also to reduce manual labour as fast as possible so more people can afford to be altruistic.

Mao and Lenin thought it was super worthy of trying, the material outcome wasn't as cool as the imaginary vision.

Re: Jacque Fresco has died

#18

Post by staticelf »

sebastianconcpt wrote: post #17
staticelf wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be worth a try though, wouldn't it? The main idea is also to reduce manual labour as fast as possible so more people can afford to be altruistic.

Mao and Lenin thought it was super worthy of trying, the material outcome wasn't as cool as the imaginary vision.

I don't really think it's the same as communism though.

Re: Jacque Fresco has died

#19

Post by JackFr »

xenu101 wrote: post #10
staticelf wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also pretty juiced up and into the venus project for a while until I realized nobody is interested in living in such a world. Then I gave up.

People are interested, they're just not interested in working towards it or giving up things for it. Fresco paints a gloomy picture of the now and the future, but the facts are that "on average", humans are living better lives than they ever have. This progress has not yet stopped. Hence, Fresco predicts we need to wait for the next "bust".

It's not just "on average", people are materially better off today than at any other period in history, at all levels. The poorest people today are better off than the poorest people at any previous era.

Re: Jacque Fresco has died

#20

Post by sebastianconcpt »

RIP Fresco. I really like him and his work. But I never understood why he was convinced about the Resource Based Economy. Shouldn't a RBE have the exact same problems as any Central Planned economy? Wasn't this refuted in 1920 by Mises? https://mises.org/sites/default/files/Economic%20Calculation...
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