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Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

latimes.com

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Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#51

Post by Sacho »

dang wrote: post #43
gr2020 wrote: post #3

Title here is misleading. Actual title of article at LA Times is "Tesla had worse safety records than slaughterhouses and sawmills" - note "had", past tense. The records in question are from 2015, and as the article says, they are working on improvements.

Ok, we've changed the baity title to representative language from the article, in accordance with https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . All: let's please have a more substantive discussion now. It's amazing how sensitive these threads are to hot coals in the title.

I don't think you would get much productive discussion for the article, which makes apples to oranges comparisons, misrepresents the report or focuses on irrelevant details. The report itself is fairly clear and easy to read and probably serves as a much better starting point for a discussion. The report is linked in the article - http://worksafe.typepad.com/files/worksafe_tesla5_24.pdf

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#53

Post by theprop »

"The scores don’t account for severity, however. The injuries at Tesla appear to be related to long hours and ergonomic design."

Not to say that any harm to your health should be avoided, but by auto industry standards (other than Tesla) to this day serious incidents involve losing limbs or death. I know they're pushing everyone at Tesla as the company is still losing a lot amount of money, but it's not clear that anyone being pushed is taking really serious risks -- at other auto companies, they are and the result is literally loss of limb and life. Moreover their loss is for "greedy capitalists" as the workers earn very little, have incentives to take risks, are not trained appropriately, and traditional car companies are quite profitable unlike Tesla.

The photos in the recent Businessweek coverage of auto industry safety of people missing limbs are horrible (Tesla was not mentioned therein btw).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-03-23/inside-al...

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#54

Post by Xylakant »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #46
apalmer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

japanese did not eat us automotive industry alive because of unions. japanese primarily eat the us automotive industry alive because of far superior manufacturing innovation.

And of course, unions have never been known to stand in the way of manufacturing innovation.

German car manufacturers are heavily unionized. It's one of the sectors with the strongest union presence. They also outcompete US manufacturers. Maybe, just maybe, unions are not to blame. Maybe, just maybe, data indicates that management may have something to do with it.

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#55

Post by glaberficken »

Now what I would really like to see is the numbers for "factory worked hours" / "car assembled" Tesla Vs Industry average.

Anyone reckon there would be a surprising number in this ratio? (i.e. is their automation level higher than the traditional car makers?)

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#56

Post by vacri »

zaroth wrote: post #13

There's no defending Tesla's worker rights or saftey record. This is a company that's stood at the brink of failure for years and only survives through the blood, sweat, and tears of its employees. Maybe you believe Elon when he says that it's worth it, but there's no arguing that it's a steep price to pay. It's incredibly frustrating that no one has figured out a way to bring about the kind of transformative change…

> but there's no arguing that it's a steep price to pay.

What's so steep about it? It's marginally higher than the industry average. Some other members of industry will be higher than that average as well. The numbers in the article don't paint the picture of Tesla being a charnel house compared against its contemporaries.

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#57

Post by eps »

simonh wrote: post #52

Shocking revelation reveals that up to half of car makers have below average safety records! Edit - I know safety is a serious matter, but it does look like this is a historical issue that Tesla takes seriously and has under control.

That would be "below _median_ safety records."

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#58

Post by briandear »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #40
owenversteeg wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, exactly, is "worth it", though? SpaceX, sure, that could be worth it. They're actually innovating. But Tesla? A goddamn car company? What the hell is so important about fancy cars for rich people that they have to screw the workers for? Sure, they call themselves an "energy company", and they have made "amazing advances in energy technology", but both Tesla's fancy solar panel AND battery "advances" are literal…

Global warming. We're at or past the tipping point already, but electric cars and solar houses are definitely the direction we need to be going if we want to avoid disastrous and irreversible climate change. If-- if --Tesla can help make that happen, it'll be worth a lot of sacrifice.

What caused climate change before there were people?

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#59

Post by _pmf_ »

Xylakant wrote: post #54
CamperBob2 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And of course, unions have never been known to stand in the way of manufacturing innovation.

German car manufacturers are heavily unionized. It's one of the sectors with the strongest union presence. They also outcompete US manufacturers. Maybe, just maybe, unions are not to blame. Maybe, just maybe, data indicates that management may have something to do with it.

I can tell you that German automotive unions (OEMs and suppliers) are among the main opponents of electromobility. ZF, Mahle ... a lot of components are just no longer needed for a gearless EV where the motor consists of a large coil instead of thousands of high-precision parts.

They are also responsible for making sure that government grants flow into OEMs instead of generic EV charging infrastructure.

We regularly have reengineering projects for end-of-line testing equipment and other test benches where we are contractually required to guarantee that the new version does not make the personnel operating the equipment redundant (i.e. it may not be more efficient than the 15 year old version). (I won't blame anyone for disbelieving this.)

So, yes, they are very much against manufacturing improvements.

Re: Safety incidents at Tesla plant were higher than industry average in 2015

#60

Post by [deleted] »

eps wrote: post #57
simonh wrote: post #52

Shocking revelation reveals that up to half of car makers have below average safety records! Edit - I know safety is a serious matter, but it does look like this is a historical issue that Tesla takes seriously and has under control.

That would be "below _median_ safety records."

[deleted]
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