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New Zealand space launch is first from a private site

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Re: New Zealand space launch is first from a private site

#51

Post by valuearb »

6d6b73 wrote: post #43
rbanffy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

12 hours a day, but in exchange you get to build spaceships. Of course, it all depends on how passionate you are about space. If I lived in NZ and had the expertise for it (my really serious embedded stints ended in college), I'd be there in a flash.

>Of course, it all depends on how passionate you are about space. How about being more passionate about spending time with my own kids, and being able to teach them about all the cool stuff like science, space, robotics etc.. What is it with companies that want claim to build cool stuff to better the humanity, but forget that the people are what's really important?

You can always do that stuff later. Changing the world has always been for those willing to sacrifice.

Re: New Zealand space launch is first from a private site

#52

Post by valuearb »

lukealization wrote: post #8
MattPearce wrote: post #7

Awesome! Their NZ office is just 10 minutes from my house, I was going to apply for a C++ dev role with them but was warned by the recruiter that everyone was expected to work 12 hours a day, so unfortunately I had to give it a miss as I wasn't comfortable with that.

I'm in a similar position to yourself here. Would love to apply as I think working on something essentially similar to a space program would be incredible, but as someone who values days off and a work-life balance, I cannot commit to that level of employment. It's a shame RocketLab have adopted such a SpaceX-esque policy of employment. Surely it must be possible to build a rocketry company where employees work only…

You realize if you sleep 8 hours a night, you have 112 hours in a week. With careful organization it's possible to work 60 each week for long periods and still maintain some balance.

Of course if you have kids, it's way harder. But I can get close to 60 hours a week by working 50 hours Monday though Friday, and then half days Saturday/Sunday. Still time for workouts, games, hikes, fun. The reality is school events/conferences will interfere, so 50-55 is probably more reasonable long term.

It's all in what you want to accomplish in life. To me my work is my hobby so I don't need time for others.

Re: New Zealand space launch is first from a private site

#53

Post by valuearb »

What I like about the Electron is it's 9 engine booster. I think the Falcon 9 has shown with modern engine management systems that large number of engines can be as safe, if not more so given redundancies. Building massive boosters should be easier as well, given you don't have to scale up individual engines as large. I still don't know why the SLS didn't dump the solid rockets and go with a 9 engine configuration and reusability instead of the 4 engine disposable design.

The biggest problem with Electron is that it's disposable. Rocket Labs isn't NASA, and the Electron isn't the SLS, getting funded regardless of cost. Electron is launching in a competitive market.

Falcon 9 launch cadence will increase and it's already much cheaper per pound. Some customers can't piggyback on Falcon because they need a custom or polar orbit, so they'll choose Electron even at a higher cost. But there other competitors are coming in the small payload space, they all have seen that reusability can work, and some have to be building reusable designs.

Rocket Lab looks like it could be out in front for serving these small payloads. But to stay there I'm betting they'll need a re-usable Electron, and fairly soon.

Re: New Zealand space launch is first from a private site

#54

Post by sten »

ballooney wrote: post #23
gliptic wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only the turbopump that is electric. The efficiency of the turbopump is counteracted by the need to bring batteries along. As I understand it, the electric turbopump makes the plumbing simpler, but it doesn't scale to large engines.

This is correct, the power density of electric motors (and the batteries to power them) is still very far short of what you can get from a well-designed turbine-based pump (that is, a turbopump), but there's so much ancillary plumbing and and stuff for a turbopump (like the precombustion chamber that has to generate some hot gas to drive the turbine), that doesn't scale down all that well to the small scale of the en…

Thank you for writing all this out. It is very exciting!

Re: New Zealand space launch is first from a private site

#55

Post by Gibbon1 »

gliptic wrote: post #14
doldge wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One fairly interesting note there is that the electric engine that propels the rocket runs at 95% efficiency, in contrast to the 50% efficiency of the standard gas engines of the larger rocket. Is anyone familiar with A) why this is, and B) why the larger companies aren't investigating the use of these electric engines more? Is it too costly/difficult to do at a larger scale?

It's only the turbopump that is electric. The efficiency of the turbopump is counteracted by the need to bring batteries along. As I understand it, the electric turbopump makes the plumbing simpler, but it doesn't scale to large engines.

I read a paper some people wrote on the subject. Take away is battery powered pumps can be built as big, or importantly as small as you want. Turbo pumps on the other hand don't scale down well very well. Batteries win at the size of the electron rocket.

I would not be surprised if someone starts work on a larger electric rocket engine because the difference in efficiency is not huge. But however electric is a far simpler and potentially more reliable design. If electrics are super reliable the difference in insurance costs might tip things in their favor[1].

[1] Trade 1:10 chance of losing your sat vs a 1:50 chance for 25% higher launch costs? There are companies that would readily take the latter option.

Re: New Zealand space launch is first from a private site

#56

Post by 6d6b73 »

valuearb wrote: post #51
6d6b73 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Of course, it all depends on how passionate you are about space. How about being more passionate about spending time with my own kids, and being able to teach them about all the cool stuff like science, space, robotics etc.. What is it with companies that want claim to build cool stuff to better the humanity, but forget that the people are what's really important?

You can always do that stuff later. Changing the world has always been for those willing to sacrifice.

Taking care of your family is the best way to change the world for the better.

Re: New Zealand space launch is first from a private site

#57

Post by bbcbasic »

ehnto wrote: post #48
vermontdevil wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we all should chip in for a project on behalf of HN for a cubestat?

Heck, count me in. I don't care if all it does is play Rick Astley tunes, a crowdfunded HN cubesat would be super fun to be part of.

Just need a few SF people to chip in a week's rent :-)

Re: New Zealand space launch is first from a private site

#58

Post by rbanffy »

6d6b73 wrote: post #56
valuearb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always do that stuff later. Changing the world has always been for those willing to sacrifice.

Taking care of your family is the best way to change the world for the better.

I remember the bittersweet interviews of many Apollo program engineers. That work cost many marriages but, in the end, they sent people to walk on another world and brought them back, forever changing the way we see ourselves in the universe.

To do hard things is hard. I won't say this specific job requires 12-hour days - that's probably because this is such a capital-intensive endeavor. There aren't many hard deadlines when launching to LEO.

Re: New Zealand space launch is first from a private site

#59

Post by emiliobumachar »

chimere wrote: post #45
emiliobumachar wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, I've heard that for polar orbits, you actually have to spent extra energy to cancel out all that speed you got for free - in the wrong axis - from Earth's rotation.

That's right. The most common polar orbits, sun synchronous orbits (SSO), are actually inclined at ~97 deg from the equator. This means that they're moving slightly opposite of the earth's rotation, requiring it to be more than cancelled out. This means that polar launches benefit a bit from launching closer to the poles where the Earth's surface velocity is lower. However, in reality the difficult logistics of build…

"rarely done"? Has it ever been done??

Searching for "polar launch" found nothing. (There's actually a Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle [1], but it does not launch from the poles [see Launch History at 1])

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_Satellite_Launch_Vehicle

Re: New Zealand space launch is first from a private site

#60

Post by pc2g4d »

ballooney wrote: post #17
sand500 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question, doesnt ITAR prevent the team from being multinational?

I've done space projects with US companies and so am fully marinated in ITAR processes. In answer to your question: No, you can get around ITAR by just being careful about what information is imported and exported to and from the US. If there was a US engineering office and an NZ engineering office and all the engineering effort was evenly distributed among the two, it would be a nightmare as you'd be 'exporting US t…

Wondering, why was the "paperwork fudge" necessary? I guess because the U.S-N.Z. free trade agreement never happened?
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