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A brief history of IPv4 address space exhaustion

blogs.igalia.com

31–40 of 89 posts

Re: A brief history of IPv4 address space exhaustion

#31
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your router has a firewall, external computers can't just send packets to the internal addresses. NAT is not a firewall.

So IPv6 firewall rules are common now for consumer routers?

First, nothing is common for consumer IPv6 routers, they're practically non-existent.

Second, you get the same security benefits by having a firewall that denies outbound connections not already established.

Re: A brief history of IPv4 address space exhaustion

#33
post #31
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So IPv6 firewall rules are common now for consumer routers?

First, nothing is common for consumer IPv6 routers, they're practically non-existent. Second, you get the same security benefits by having a firewall that denies outbound connections not already established.

I bought an IPv6 router 3-4 years ago.

Re: A brief history of IPv4 address space exhaustion

#34

I find DJB's take on this interesting: https://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html EDIT: Dan has many excellent points, but I'd like to quote my favorite: The IPv6 designers made a fundamental conceptual mistake: they designed the IPv6 address space as an alternative to the IPv4 address space, rather than an extension to the IPv4 address space. Indeed, what were they thinking! It's certainly an undeniable fact that IPv6 ad…

One thing I never understood in these proposals: how would two computers, one with only an extended address and the other with only an IPv4 address, talk to each other? Or two computers with extended addresses, but with a single router in the middle of their path which doesn't understand extended addresses?

All these proposals I've seen appear to assume that extended addresses start being distributed only after every or almost every host and router in the whole world had all of its software upgraded to understand extended addresses. But that's not realistic, since without being able to actually use it, there would be no incentive to modify every single piece of network-facing software and hardware to be able to use extended addresses. It's a Catch-22.

Re: A brief history of IPv4 address space exhaustion

#35

I find DJB's take on this interesting: https://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html EDIT: Dan has many excellent points, but I'd like to quote my favorite: The IPv6 designers made a fundamental conceptual mistake: they designed the IPv6 address space as an alternative to the IPv4 address space, rather than an extension to the IPv4 address space. Indeed, what were they thinking! It's certainly an undeniable fact that IPv6 ad…

If you assume that IPv6 adoption is only due to IPv4 address shortage, then the rate of adoption makes a lot of sense. Whatever alternative to IPv6 you can come up with, as long as there is plenty of IPv4 space, nothing will happen. Unless you can find a killer app in a different area, which hasn't happened.

Now that you have to buy IPv4 addresses at around $10 for a single address, the game has changed.

With carrier grade NAT, content has to slowly migrate to IPv6 for geo-location reasons. Any content that sees a high amount of abuse also has to avoid CGN.

Once big parties like google, facebook, etc. have a lot of traffic on IPv6, it stops making sense for them to invest in IPv4. So they will try to pressure ISPs into offering IPv6. Likewise, if an ISP sees that big content providers are on IPv6, then it stops making sense to invest in IPv4. Pressuring smaller content providers to offer IPv6.

And then IPv4 joins the ranks of IPX, NetBIOS, Apple Talk. Some pockets may continue to exists, but the rest of the world has moved on.

Re: A brief history of IPv4 address space exhaustion

#36

I find DJB's take on this interesting: https://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html EDIT: Dan has many excellent points, but I'd like to quote my favorite: The IPv6 designers made a fundamental conceptual mistake: they designed the IPv6 address space as an alternative to the IPv4 address space, rather than an extension to the IPv4 address space. Indeed, what were they thinking! It's certainly an undeniable fact that IPv6 ad…

I was just writing up my own comment to say exactly this when I noticed your comment. It's particularly unfortunate that ipv6 was not made backwards-compatible because it would not have been difficult to do: extra address bits could have been included in the options portion of the header. An IPv4 packet could be routed over an IPv6 network simply by setting the (missing) extended address bits to some canonical default value (most likely 0). The net result would be similar to an HTTP/1.0 client accessing an HTTP/1.1 server with multiple virtual servers running on it: accessing an IPv4 host at A.B.C.D would be the same as accessing an IPv6 host at A.B.C.D.0....0

Such a missed opportunity.

Re: A brief history of IPv4 address space exhaustion

#38
post #34

I find DJB's take on this interesting: https://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html EDIT: Dan has many excellent points, but I'd like to quote my favorite: The IPv6 designers made a fundamental conceptual mistake: they designed the IPv6 address space as an alternative to the IPv4 address space, rather than an extension to the IPv4 address space. Indeed, what were they thinking! It's certainly an undeniable fact that IPv6 ad…

One thing I never understood in these proposals: how would two computers, one with only an extended address and the other with only an IPv4 address, talk to each other? Or two computers with extended addresses, but with a single router in the middle of their path which doesn't understand extended addresses? All these proposals I've seen appear to assume that extended addresses start being distributed only after every…

> One thing I never understood in these proposals: how would two computers, one with only an extended address and the other with only an IPv4 address, talk to each other?

Via a NAT router that talks v4 on one side and v6 on the other.

Re: A brief history of IPv4 address space exhaustion

#39

I find DJB's take on this interesting: https://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html EDIT: Dan has many excellent points, but I'd like to quote my favorite: The IPv6 designers made a fundamental conceptual mistake: they designed the IPv6 address space as an alternative to the IPv4 address space, rather than an extension to the IPv4 address space. Indeed, what were they thinking! It's certainly an undeniable fact that IPv6 ad…

That post is incredibly obsolete. In reality, a big chunk of the Internet is already running IPv6 in production as we speak.

Re: A brief history of IPv4 address space exhaustion

#40
post #9

Unfortunately my perception is that IPv6 deployment is stalled (due to inaction by ISPs). In my company we have recently dismantled some of our IPv6 infrastructure because it became apparent that ubiquitous v6 connectivity was not coming any time soon (e.g. we have locations served by Charter/Spectrum, and they have no IPv6 and no plan to deploy it). We've instead deployed a private IPv4 overlay network between our s…

I don't think that perception is accurate. Google's IPv6 tracker shows continual progress: https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html (with the expected bumps around weekends and holidays) It's not a fast process, but I don't see any evidence it is stalled.

I don't think it really matters what percent of clients are IPv6-capable. Nobody is incentivized to actually deploy servers to IPv6 while there exist zero IPv6-only clients.
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