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NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

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Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#211
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do I do, as someone who cares? No, seriously. Should I throw a bit more money at the EFF? Start my own political party, or enter an existing one and try to steer it in my direction? Try to get employed by one of these organizations and then promote a better understanding of their mission internally? Move to another country where people care more (which?) Identifying the problem is a good first step, but what can…

Jim Bell had some . . . interesting ideas about how to solve it.

Apparent Problem: governments and people who accept the legitimacy of governments exist.

Apparent Solution: a secret, untraceable and unaccountable murder network that keeps killing people until only the anarchists and killers are left. Oh, and the most effective killers become the de facto power brokers of the new world order.

... something something liberty?

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#212
Republican Propaganda.

The text tone is slanted. Where these rules broken and loosened? If so, was it an executive order or a constitutional appeal / ammendment?

The line "...that the Obama administration loosened in 2011" is too vague.

And let's not even get started on the download, the javascript, the huge image as the first payload. Smells like I'm being tracked!! Not very privvy to privacy-esque circles, i see.

Oh and you have to have the facebook PLUGIN to pretend to talk real people through their Sock Puppets, Daniel Nyguen (the most common last name in Vietnam) and James Morrison from Ft. Worth Texas.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#213
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today a revolution would be illegal. Not just illegal but even talk of a revolution, or openly espousing that the idea should be considered.

Revolutions are always illegal. The American Revolution was very clearly illegal as far as England was concerned, and the US Civil war was illegal to the Union. Even the Founding Fathers, some of whom certainly believed the right to revolutionary violence was necessary and healthy for a free state, would not have accepted the right of the people to string them up. But your second sentence isn't accurate. The US is al…

I disagree. Under 18 U.S.C.A. § 2384 I think people have been prosecuted and will continue to be when they speak out against the government and advocate for its overthrow. Whether violent or not, sedition is illegal, and if you make too much notice I believe you will be prosecuted.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#214
post #30

I think the most dangerous thing is that what Snowden predicted actually happened by now. After all the revelations, nobody is interested anymore. There's this general fatigue and powerlessness that leads to a feeling of "well, yeah, everbody knows by now... what's the news here?" - even for me as a security expert and privacy proponent. The real danger is nobody cares anymore, as this enables all further constitutio…

What do I do, as someone who cares? No, seriously. Should I throw a bit more money at the EFF? Start my own political party, or enter an existing one and try to steer it in my direction? Try to get employed by one of these organizations and then promote a better understanding of their mission internally? Move to another country where people care more (which?) Identifying the problem is a good first step, but what can…

Get to work. If you don't know what to do, listen to someone who does and try to figure out if it makes sense #for you#. Figure out means integration, testing, exploration, reflection, then, reflectipn.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#215
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In short, black-bag some elites, and shoot them up with a witches brew of MDMA, LSD, DXM, Datura, nicotine, cannabis, salvinorin-A, high fructose corn syrup, fluoride, chemtrail distillate, et cetera (Poe's Law disclosure: the latter three were satire), and see if that can cure them of being selfish assholes. No, it'll give them a bad trip and they will hang you by your own guts. This (and more) had already been tr…

As I recall, the goals of that project were somewhat different. I am specifically suggesting a cure for antisocial personality disorder. Hallucinogens have been successfully used clinically to treat addiction and other self-destructive behaviors. Anecdotal reports from recreational drug users sometimes include sensations of being connected to everything else on the planet, and coming down with a profound and newfound…

> As I recall, the goals of that project were somewhat different.

There were many, from "truth serum" against captured enemy spies through mind control over the US population (they considered adding psychedelics to tap water) up to "pacification" of Soviet leaders in the exact way you described.

> Hallucinogens have been successfully used clinically to treat addiction and other self-destructive behaviors. Anecdotal reports from recreational drug users sometimes include sensations of being connected to everything else on the planet, and coming down with a profound and newfound respect for life. MDMA reportedly enhances natural empathy.

It only worked that way for people who already wanted it to work for them that way.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? >You say this as though there were a known solution to the problem. The opposite, actually.

So then did you have an actual point, or were you just bringing up one of the biggest unsolved problems of all times? I'll say it again: you could have argued "what about the heat death of the universe" and it would have been just as substantive a contribution...

>bringing up one of the biggest unsolved problems of all times?

Yeah. Suing the NSA is not going to solve this problem, which was my original point.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#217
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I recall, the goals of that project were somewhat different. I am specifically suggesting a cure for antisocial personality disorder. Hallucinogens have been successfully used clinically to treat addiction and other self-destructive behaviors. Anecdotal reports from recreational drug users sometimes include sensations of being connected to everything else on the planet, and coming down with a profound and newfound…

> As I recall, the goals of that project were somewhat different. There were many, from "truth serum" against captured enemy spies through mind control over the US population (they considered adding psychedelics to tap water) up to "pacification" of Soviet leaders in the exact way you described. > Hallucinogens have been successfully used clinically to treat addiction and other self-destructive behaviors. Anecdotal r…

Let's not fall into the trap of assuming that since CIA-funded scientists performing secret and unethical experiments to accomplish military-political objectives couldn't make the drugs work, that it couldn't be done above-board by clinicians who genuinely want to cure a bona fide brain defect that is utterly devastating to everyone who would ordinarily be close to the affected individuals.

MK-Ultra wanted to make normal people more biddable by the US government. That's a far cry from attempting to cure the apparent combination of antisocial personality disorder and narcissism that seems prevalent in the behaviors of many of the worst heads of state (and other, less-privileged government officials) known to history.

We know it's possible, because the majority of humans manage to grow a sense of empathy attached to their limbic system that actually makes them feel bad when they hurt other people and feel good when they make other people happy. The human brain naturally develops this capacity when exposed to the correct combination of chemicals and stimuli. So I have to believe that a cure is possible, because otherwise we have no business letting those monsters anywhere near our livelihoods, our relationships, or our institutions. They are currently physiologically incapable of caring whether the rest of us live or die, feel fear or joy, love or hate. They might as well be randomized time bombs strapped to stray cats. If you let them go, you have no idea where or when they will go off.

I believe that a significant fraction of the world's ultra-rich elites are either naturally narcissistic sociopaths, or have conditioned themselves to numb their sense of empathy and their humility. If the dangerous ones can be cured, they don't all have to be indiscriminately thrown under the guillotine next time. Because that often just allows the reserve corps of narcissistic sociopaths, formerly kept in check by the previous top predators, to assume power.

I want to believe in a cure. If I couldn't believe in that, I would have to support committing crimes against people whom I cannot be certain are truly antisocial personalities--in the name of the "greater good", of course--and that would mean that I would be one of the monsters unfit to participate in civilized, cooperative society. I'd have to wonder whether I genuinely wanted to help other people, or whether I was just removing the competition for their future exploitation.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#218
As a non-American, whose rights to any sort of privacy whatsoever have been deemed zero by people on this very forum from the start[0], I really just want to point my finger and say:

"Ha, ha!"

I guess it's my turn to finally say, "is anyone really surprised?".

Okay having gotten that off my chest, I have a question too :) It's about the timing of this release, just in the last few weeks before Trump got elected. I have a little theory that sprung to mind reading the article. Is it maybe because NSA was violating the restrictions left and right, because obviously they believe it's for the Greater Good, or something. But they are probably also aware that the mere existence of all this data is dangerous by itself, you slurp it up, filter, categorize, store, etc. Now it's like nuclear waste sludge, waiting to fuck shit up when it ends up somewhere it shouldn't be. And maybe during the Obama administration, who, you may not have liked the guy but at least he is you know, SANE[1], so the NSA believed that these violations were for the Greater Good/for the better. But now there's Trump. And he's a wild card. Literally no telling what this guy will do or won't do. And then there's these rumours about Russian connections[2]. So now the NSA is suddenly like, wait a minute, all this data is still here, and we're spying on citizens, and we're collecting all this shit, and ... Trump's in power. Maybe better limit ourselves, before he (or his underlings) start using it in very, very badwrong ways. Like, the NSA trusted they could wildly overstep their boundaries in a relatively sane governmental environment, but now they're not so sure any more and kind of worried about what powers they actually gave this administration?

Does that sound about right? It's just some thoughts I had about the matter.

Good luck getting your privacies back, and all though. Honestly.

[0] because violating my privacy is "their job" even though I am a human being with a fundamental right to privacy just like you guys, I've nothing wrong to have that taken away from me! We all live on the same planet, and no, my government's intelligence service is NOT spying on the entire Internet just the same, because they can't, they don't have the unique position and resources of the NSA. And if they would, I would not defend them for it.

[1] Disclaimer: I don't have a background to actually diagnose people. But I do know a thing or two about it. So there's the blatantly obvious narcissistic personality disorder. And then there's the part where he's just simply not qualified, he doesn't know shit about 20th century world history, international relations and diplomacy, etc. Believing you can do this super important job, is also pretty insane. The spokespeople, in their eyes you can see they want to scream we don't know what the guy is saying half the time either.

[2] Trump almost literally admitted he fired the FBI guy because he was investigating him about Russia. I mean he also denied it, but even though that's one of his insane shticks, to say something and claim the opposite a bit later, in this case, saying both does not in fact, add up to saying nothing. It's really crazy that. But the jury's still out, right?

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#219
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As I recall, the goals of that project were somewhat different. There were many, from "truth serum" against captured enemy spies through mind control over the US population (they considered adding psychedelics to tap water) up to "pacification" of Soviet leaders in the exact way you described. > Hallucinogens have been successfully used clinically to treat addiction and other self-destructive behaviors. Anecdotal r…

Let's not fall into the trap of assuming that since CIA-funded scientists performing secret and unethical experiments to accomplish military-political objectives couldn't make the drugs work, that it couldn't be done above-board by clinicians who genuinely want to cure a bona fide brain defect that is utterly devastating to everyone who would ordinarily be close to the affected individuals. MK-Ultra wanted to make no…

Are you certain it's a problem with their sense of empathy not being properly attached to the limbic system? Because IMO, it seems more likely that bit works just fine even for them, but they use strong cognitive dissonance to hack around it.

Also, you are taking it as a given that the problem is that a lot of high ranking power positions are taken by people with sociopathic and/or narcissist personality disorders. I'm with you on that btw, no need to convince me, but I'm not sure if it's a generally agreed upon fact :)

Also also, AUM worked not just with one dose but also a (near?) 100% success rate. But that was in a work of fiction, specifically, one with the premise of "what if ALL conspiracy theories ever, were true, simultaneously?". It's one of my favourite books for sure, contains a lot of real wisdom as well, but more in a philosophical sense than practical. There's no way even a perfectly researched cocktail of hallucinogenics, MDMA, other drugs and I dunno what else, would attain a practical permanent success rate past 10% even.

Re: NSA secretly conducted illegal searches on Americans for years

#220
post #55

I think that the privacy issue will get worst quicker under Trump, which is why I voted for him. I think that it is required, for it to get better, because people don't care enough yet.

One of President Obama's last acts was to expand and entrench mass surveillance by the Federal government. >New rules issued by the Obama administration under Executive Order 12333 will let the NSA—which collects information under that authority with little oversight, transparency, or concern for privacy—share the raw streams of communications it intercepts directly with agencies including the FBI, the DEA, and the D…

I didn't read Obama correctly... He was a pretty good liar. Hopefully I am not wrong with Trump.
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