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Bringing back the Somali shilling

jpkoning.blogspot.com

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Re: Bringing back the Somali shilling

#31

Post by dmoy »

tshaddox wrote: post #14
jordanb wrote: post #12

As an aside: I've been waiting for Libertarians to declare Somalia to be heaven on earth. I wonder why they've never picked up on the obvious real-world example of a nation with no central state government with a monopoly on violence?

You probably haven't looked that hard. Somalia case studies are ubiquitous in libertarian (anarchist-leaning) circles. The general claim seems to be that, yeah, stateless Somalia is way worse than high-functioning governments like the United States, but better than its neighbor states and better than it was before it became stateless. Leeson's article is probably the best on the topic: http://www.peterleeson.com/Bett…

People actually argue that Somalia is better than it was back when it had a functioning government? Have they talked to anyone who grew up or lived through that? Nobody I've talked to from Somalia (I grew up in Minneapolis, a good chunk of my classmates from elementary and uni were Somali), nobody thinks it was a good change. The amount of death and fear is just staggering.

That article reads a little tone deaf, a lot of the data ignores an entire 10 year period of total fucking chaos.

Re: Bringing back the Somali shilling

#32

Post by peteretep »

dmoy wrote: post #31
tshaddox wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably haven't looked that hard. Somalia case studies are ubiquitous in libertarian (anarchist-leaning) circles. The general claim seems to be that, yeah, stateless Somalia is way worse than high-functioning governments like the United States, but better than its neighbor states and better than it was before it became stateless. Leeson's article is probably the best on the topic: http://www.peterleeson.com/Bett…

People actually argue that Somalia is better than it was back when it had a functioning government? Have they talked to anyone who grew up or lived through that? Nobody I've talked to from Somalia (I grew up in Minneapolis, a good chunk of my classmates from elementary and uni were Somali), nobody thinks it was a good change. The amount of death and fear is just staggering. That article reads a little tone deaf, a lo…

While I don't agree with you per-se, there's a lot of inherent survivorship bias in your sample group.

Re: Bringing back the Somali shilling

#33

Post by abarrettjo »

cup wrote: post #30
abarrettjo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the even better example of Somaliland, which is perfectly safe. I lived and worked there for a few months last summer, and loved it.

Somaliland has a government though.

Fair, but I would argue that the Somaliland government is about as existent as the one Somalia also technically has. It exists, but doesn't do anything.

But please correct me if you disagree! I really appreciated your comments down below, particularly your question about whether re-introducing bank notes is an effort to diminish the influence of the Telcos.

Re: Bringing back the Somali shilling

#34

Post by baddox »

cup wrote: post #29
tshaddox wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably haven't looked that hard. Somalia case studies are ubiquitous in libertarian (anarchist-leaning) circles. The general claim seems to be that, yeah, stateless Somalia is way worse than high-functioning governments like the United States, but better than its neighbor states and better than it was before it became stateless. Leeson's article is probably the best on the topic: http://www.peterleeson.com/Bett…

>but better than its neighbor states and better than it was before it became stateless. Not quite. While dysfunctional, Somali pre-anarchy was actually a great place to live.

Was it? It sure doesn't sound so, from what I've read about Barre's regime.

Re: Bringing back the Somali shilling

#35

Post by abarrettjo »

creepydata wrote: post #25
redblacktree wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somalia is way worse than high-functioning governments like the United States Yet my libertarian friends on Facebook all seem to want to tear the enitre government down.

Strange thing is the same friends would not live in Somolia if given the chance...

I would question your assumption there; plenty of Somali diaspora move back and live in Somalia or Somaliland.

Re: Bringing back the Somali shilling

#36

Post by cup »

baddox wrote: post #34
cup wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but better than its neighbor states and better than it was before it became stateless. Not quite. While dysfunctional, Somali pre-anarchy was actually a great place to live.

Was it? It sure doesn't sound so, from what I've read about Barre's regime.

Functional hospitals, schools, universities, utilities and services. No crime, no warlords and no bandits. Economic stability and religious freedom.

Sure, Barre was a dictator, there was state sanctioned violence but for the average Somali on the street life was better in contrast to what followed which was:

Anarchy, random violence, war lords, checkpoint extortion, no services, no schools, no hospitals, no utilities, telecommunications were monopolized and the owners became defacto rulers who maintained anarchy to ensure tax-free profits. Massive increase in maternal mortality, reduction in life expectancy etc etc.

No one is saying Barre and the regime was great, but in comparison its pretty clear it was superior.

Re: Bringing back the Somali shilling

#37

Post by BurningFrog »

jordanb wrote: post #12

As an aside: I've been waiting for Libertarians to declare Somalia to be heaven on earth. I wonder why they've never picked up on the obvious real-world example of a nation with no central state government with a monopoly on violence?

Libertarians typically want a small state that uses its monopoly on violence solely to protect citizens from aggression.

Re: Bringing back the Somali shilling

#38

Post by runeks »

nowarninglabel wrote: post #5

This highlights well some of the conversations I have with folks who want to replace fiat currencies with cryptocurrencies. Sure, one can design a better monetary system, but that doesn't mean people are going to want to use it. You have to incentivize and enable people in order to get them to change. M-PESA and the similar mobile money telecom products are doing more for digitizing and disrupting fiat currencies tha…

> You have to incentivize and enable people in order to get them to change.

It's also possible the incentive will come by itself: if advocates of commodity money (money with an inflexible supply/stock) are right, inflation will occur in traditional currencies sooner or later. No better incentive to store your value in bitcoins than seeing the value you have in traditional currency slowly erode.

Time will tell whether this will be what introduces regular folks to cryptocurrency. If I were living in Argentina or Venezuela, it wouldn't take much convincing to get me to store at least part of my savings in cryptocurrency.

Re: Bringing back the Somali shilling

#39

Post by [deleted] »

captainmuon wrote: post #8

I crazy idea I had was using counterfeiters to mint money. Make it so that the manufacturing cost of a $100 bill is $100 minus the amount you want the counterfeiter to make, so for $1 say $99. Include tons of security features, use silk, gold, diamond dust, whatever. Then just let the market do it's thing. Have money testing machines that shred fake bank notes at sight. You may or may not want to keep punishments for…

[deleted]

Re: Bringing back the Somali shilling

#40

Post by hueving »

captainmuon wrote: post #8

I crazy idea I had was using counterfeiters to mint money. Make it so that the manufacturing cost of a $100 bill is $100 minus the amount you want the counterfeiter to make, so for $1 say $99. Include tons of security features, use silk, gold, diamond dust, whatever. Then just let the market do it's thing. Have money testing machines that shred fake bank notes at sight. You may or may not want to keep punishments for…

Isn't that basically the same as trading gold coins?
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